Italian cavalry North Africa

[jb]

Does anybody have any pictures,or links, to post of the Italian Colonial Cavalry that was used in north Africa,to include camels?
Thanks (graci!)in advance

[1ComOpsCtr]

jb

Here is a link to the Italian cavalry on the Russian Front... should be close to the same with tropical uniform. Plus there was irregular cavalry both in desert robes and mixed uniforms.

http://www.battlefront.co.nz/article.asp?articleid=1296

Will

[Luca]

Ciao! I think you'll find this site interesting. It shows the indogenous troops used by the italians.

http://www.collezioni-f.it/ascari/ascari.html

[jb]

Thanks Will, and Luca,
I was hoping to get pictures of the camel troops,and I see some in the site that Luca posted. What Luck! I had my camel troops painted just like the ones that are shown in the site . I was also considiring taking the Italian 45 At gun and convert it to a 65mm IG. They both appear to look very similar(if they don't I'm sure Mk1 will yell at me!). I saw pictures of one folded and stowed on the back of a camel. Oh yeah, my camel troops are from the other guys ancient Arabian camelry. Just trim the shield and cut the spear to look like a rifle,Voila! libyan camelry. They also have all sorts of other cavalry that might just do the trick for the colonial troops.

[1ComOpsCtr]

The 1st link below provides the organization for "Black Shirt" Divisions, and the second link takes you to the main list with access to the organization of Libyan Troops as well.

http://orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/019_ita ... cnn_40.gif

http://orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/019_italy/40_organ

Will

[Mk 1]

jb jabbered:
I was also considiring taking the Italian 45 At gun and convert it to a 65mm IG. They both appear to look very similar(if they don't I'm sure Mk1 will yell at me!). I saw pictures of one folded and stowed on the back of a camel.

Now now, JB, have I ever yelled at anyone for trying a kit-bashing experiment? Nevah, my good sah, nevah!

So for a 65mm IG, if you are in the mood for a real detailed bit of bashing, you'll want to remove the split trail and give it a mono-trail (of your own contrivance, I guess). Also, the barrel should be shorter than the ATG, just nominally extending beyond the recuperator, while the slide upon which the barrel recoils should be extended backwards behind the breech some distance.

Oh, and though I won't yell about trying a kit bash, I will suggest that you GET THE CALIBER OF THE ATG RIGHT, FER GOODNESS SAKE! It's a 47mm gun, not a 45.

[jb]

GET THE CALIBER OF THE ATG RIGHT, FER GOODNESS SAKE![/b] It's a 47mm gun, not a 45.

Just a typo old boy,just a typo(with a British accent!)
In my current research of Italian "things" I came upon a picture of a gun not unlike the 47mm ATG. It was labeled 65mm "mountain howitzer. An Italian typo? maybe...dunno...
I will try to remember where it was

[1ComOpsCtr]

jb

I've been experimenting with some Libyan infantry to use in the campaign. There were many colorful units, this being one of them...



Yes, I realize this was their dress uniforms, but I thought a little color would be nice to include in this campaign...



Also experimenting with tags and markings... I like this version best I think. When completed (tag renumbered) this will be part of the Light Division that bacame the 21st Panzer.

Will

[jb]

Will,
I like those infantry. I agree with you on adding some color,and i thought I was doing it with my white colored camel troops(though they do have the colored saddle blanket). My guess is they are former ACW zouves from the "other" guys.
I've always hated the looks of tags on the battlefield,but over many years of gaming came to the realisation of their "vital" importance in any game. So make them as good looking as you can if you got them. I like to add historical full colored divisional patches and what not to the WWII. Moderns I use the subdued version of divisional patches and most times battalion crests. These patches and crests are somewhat non vital,but like I said make them look as good as you can...
I like your tags on your panzers,and I know pink was the panzer truppen arm color, But personally I would rather have desert yellow. Personal taste you know.

[Mk 1]

Dude, what's with the yelling!

Well, he did say he was expecting me to yell at him, after all.

I do so hate to dissappoint.

In my current research of Italian "things" I came upon a picture of a gun not unlike the 47mm ATG. It was labeled 65mm "mountain howitzer. An Italian typo? maybe...dunno...
I will try to remember where it was

Yep, you are on to the right gun. As far as know, the Italians had only one 65mm gun in service.

Looks fairly like the 47mm. Not identical, but close enough to bash a few into position.

'Twas the 65mm "Mountain Howitzer" in WW1 parlance. After WW1 the Alpini formations replaced it with a new 75mm howitzer, and the 65mm gun was transfered to the regular infantry formations, with a 4 gun battery being standard per Regiment of infantry. (Although it is most likely that not all infantry regiments received their issue.) Various sources may still label it a Mountain Howitzer rather than an Infantry Gun.

The 65mm gun originally had a shield. But the tendancy was to remove it. It had fairly small wagon-style wheels, which together with the lack of a shield and similar general size made it look rather like the 47mm Bohler gun. Differences were the lack of a split trail (as with the ATG), longer recoil slide, and somewhat shorter/stockier barrel.

BTW, it was also known to fire AT rounds, and saw some success in that role in Spain, from what I understand. The original AT rounds were solid shot, I believe. Later, during WW2, I think a HEAT round was issued for it, but I have little detail on that.

Oh, and I don't think the wheels could be easily dismounted and re-mounted, as with the Bohler ATG. The 47mm AT guns are often pictured in action with the wheels lying flat next to the gun. I don't think the 65mm gun had that feature. Photos, if you have them, might show otherwise...

[jb]

Thank you mk1. I can always rely on you and your knowledge of weapons and vehicles of the especially the third world (and sometimes fourth??). You always save me hours of research.
Now back to the 65 "gun". With "Will's" first scenario,a 65 gun battery is called for. I do have one extra 47 ATG that will step in for that battery. I guess that Capitano Guiseppe Gualinonni just converted it, with a tag. You know the ones that are previously discussed.

[Gort]

jb

If you put "cannone da 65/17" into google image search you'll get all kinds of useful pics as well as ammunition data (helps if you read italian tho)

regards

Steve