Dien Bien Phu

[Extra Crispy]

I just got Cold War Commander and it has me seriously thinking about doing Dien Bien Phu. Vehicles, weapons and aircraft are easy enough. What to do about the infantry?

For the French I'm thinking of just using US from the WW2 range. In this scale I think NVA could pass for Viet Minh.

Any other suggestions for the infantry?

[jb]

Brit paras with the berret...

[Mk 1]

Sounds like a fun opportunity to build a force with a fair bit of character.

Drawing from memory (no sources in front of me), I would endorse the WW2 US infantry as your primary source for French figures. The French army was re-equipped with US weapons and personal gear (webbing, uniforms, and helmets) in mid-1943, and again post-war, and really did not work through its stocks of US surplus until the mid-50s. Algeria and Cochin-China campaigns should probably be 75-80% US-based, with some varieties tossed in for the remainder.

So what might you add for variations...

Officers from the WW2 French, just for the Kepis, are a good idea, but the officers of the Legion tended to carry weapons, while the French officer in the pack does not.

There were still a number of French M29 LMGs in service. They were well regarded, though less common than BARs. And progressively more and more French made small arms, most notably in Vietnam the MAT-49 SMG. Brit para Bren gunners might do well for the M29s. As to the SMGs ... that's harder. Maybe some Italian SMGers? The Baretta SMG at least has a long straight clip out the bottom like a MAT. Helmet and uniform is a bit more "generic" than the French WW2 line -- helmet isn't a perfect match, but better than a French Adrian, and the uniform is not a perfect match, but better than a French greatcoat.

The French had a fair number of MAS-49 rifles in service by the mid-1950s. Don't know what you might use for an MAS-49, but most pictures I've seen from Cochin-China show US M1 Garands and M1 Carbines anyways.

MMG/HMGs should be almost all US Brownings. US mortars were based on the French anyways, so whatever comes in the US support kit should serve. The French also used the US 105mm Howitzer in Vietnam.

You might also add a fair number of US summer artillery crewmen, just to have the ever-popular shirtless look. Make sure to add some sunglasses on a couple of figures too. The Legion since WW2 has been inclined towards a certain sense of macho fashion.

Let us know what you decide to go with (if you do pursue it), and we'd all love to see pics when and if!

[lekw]

You may want to use some British WWII infantry in digger hats as well. Many of these have submachine guns and I have seen many photos of French in indochina with these types of hats. The big question is what to use for colonail infantry?

[Extra Crispy]

Well, this may be a record for me from hot to cold. Initial reading made me think it would be a great subject. But I've run up against two obstacles. First, finding a rule set that will let me game more than really tiny chinks of the battle. I know I can't do the whole thing on one table as a campaign (though that would be cool). But I wanted to give the Viet Minh player strategic choices.

Maybe I could do a strategic board with point to point hidden movement, and have tactical boards at 1" = 25 yards for each of the "pints" on the board.

In which case in all honesty I'll probably switch scales to 20mm....

[Extra Crispy]

Hi Thomas:

Nope not yet. I'm still focusing on the OOB and the overall game structure.

My current thinking is to have a "point to point" operational map. This will allow the VM player some choices in when and where to attack. Each "point" on the map has a corresponding game table where battles are fought out with miniatures.

I'm still debating whether I'm going to take on this project. I'll need lots of infantry an am not wild about my choices in 6mm so if I do go forward may end up in 20mm most likely as there are precious few ranges for the era in any scale.

Mark

[RFSU]

Hi guys, new member here.

Was just thinking about this subject myself. After reading the odd book about the Foreign Legion, plus the book "Street Without Joy" (or something like that), I think there is the capacity for some fantastic scenarios in Indochina, as well as the French in Algiers against the "Fell".

I think you could use VC/NVA, although at the time the Viet Minh were mainly supplied with older WW2 weapons with the newer chinese/russian weapons starting to filter in.

For the French, yes lots of options, I think overall the US look is the way to go, could also use the british para and digger hats. Especially if you cut a bit off the Bren Mag, making it look like the French FM 24/29 LMG, which was used extensively in this campaign. In fact if you search wikipedia for the above LMG, there is a great picture of the legion, in cams with US model helmet, putting a few rounds down range.

The Algiers campaign with its terrain and hilltop infantry skirmishes and ambushes would be great. When I think of indochina I think of french forces cut off in their forts, undergoing sieges, or being massacred on roads and tracks, like in the scene in We Were Soldiers.

I would be interested on how your experimentation with this era went!!!

Bit fascinated with the Legion and the French at the moment, after reading about my home country's, (Australia) campaign in Syria early WW2. Frenchmen fighting Frenchmen, Legion fighting Legion, I wonder what was going on in those guys heads??


Allez!!

[TAMMY]

Be careful that in combat in Indochine they used helmets and digger (or jungle) hats, The beret were rare as it was authorozed in 1948 for the 1st BEP only.

In Alegrie the beret was practically the only headgear carried in action.

In both areas the kepi was worn on parade only not in combat. I do not believe realistic the uniforms worn in the scne in We were soldiers.

First of all the officers are the only one with the kepi. A good way to become a choesen target. Second the Legion had no red berets. That of the paras was green and later thus became the standard color of the Lgeion. Futher the French wear the beret with the "wing" on the left and not on the right like the other countries and the soldier in the movie.

If you want to see a good collection of images of the parachutists of the Legion give a look at this French site:
http://paralegion.free.fr/