Amtracks in Iraq

[HKurban]

How many AMTRACKs make up a modern marine rifle company as seen in an OIF1 Marine RCT? Of that how many are AAVPs, AAVCs, and AAVRs?

From what I could find (read: wikipedia) each AAVP can hold about 25 marines, so 2 squads per AAV, making it no more than 3 AAVs per platoon and a total of 9+1 Command for a company. Any accurate insight (either documented or word of mouth from actual marines) would be appreciated.

[av8rmongo]

I have an Assault magazine article somewhere I'll try to dig out to confirm but if memory serves they never loaded 25 guys in one of them. (I think I posted this in another thread somewhere in this forum) I want to say that there were 12 tracks per company. I'll check my source and of course actual marines will be able to tell you from first hand experience.

Paul

[HKurban]

would make sense from an "all eggs in one basket" standpoint, although those tracks are bigger than even the mighty Abrams, so it'd reasonably be able to fit that many. Of course i could leave the troops per AAV allocation up to the player so they can watch in anguish as a Russian AT-11 spikes the side of an overfilled AAVP.

[Mk 1]

How many AMTRACKs make up a modern marine rifle company as seen in an OIF1 Marine RCT?

I note that you seem to have found much of the material you were looking for in the re-newed USMC information thread.

One item I thought I might call out -- which you have not explicitly asked about but which comes to mind as a possible assumption -- is that there are no AMTRACKS involved in the "make up" of a modern marine rifle company.

AMTRACKS are not integrated into the TOE of the Marine rifle units in the same way that Bradley IFVs are in Army units. The Marine riflemen fight as "foot", not as "mechanized". They are, in effect, "light infantry". They may be transported around the tactical arena by landing craft, by air-cushioned craft, by AMTRACK, or by aircraft (usually vertical lift aircraft). None of those transports are built-in to the Marine rifle organizations -- not at the platoon, the company, nor the battalion level.

So it might be better to ask how many AMTRACKs it takes to transport a Marine Rifle Company, or how many AMTRACKs make up an AMTRACK Company. It appears that the USMC have tried to rationalize the two structures of the rifle company and the AMTRACK company to "play well together", but they are in fact different companies.

Or so I understand.

[HKurban]

]How many AMTRACKs make up a modern marine rifle They may be transported around the tactical arena by landing craft, by air-cushioned craft, by AMTRACK, or by aircraft (usually vertical lift aircraft).

As a matter of fact I had heard this before in reading Cpt Nate Fick's book "One Bullet Away". Fick's initial commission brought him to a Marine Infantry Battalion where the three main line companies were divided between AMTRACK, ZODIAC, and HELO, (Alpha Bravo, and Charlie respectively IIRC). For some reason (probably my primary military experience being US Army related) I believed that the companies were permanently assigned to these modes of transportation for expeditionary operations (this was pre 9/11). Now that I've read through what you guys have posted up, I've got a bit of a better understanding of what the actual practice is.

I guess it would help some if I explained what I'm going for. My game is a near-future WWIII scenario involving a generally East v. West conflict. In my scenario, MARFORCOM has decided to allocate the majority of the marine combat forces to the pacific in an island hopping campaign against Chinese PLA Marines (eventually culminating in a liberation of the Japanese Islands and Korean Peninsula).

The land-based fights in Europe and the middle east are handled primarily by the US Army and the NATO allies, although occasionally the marines might be brought in when an amphibious operation is called for. One such case is Operation Frost Bite where several MEUs take part in a landing across the Baltic to liberate the Russian occupied Scandinavian Peninsula. (Just try and picture that for a moment )

Anyways my Marines will be built around these sorts of missions in a 1:1 scale. I don't think I'll have any full strength battalions, but rather a few companies, working in conjunction such as a Rifle Company, Armor Company, AAV company, LAR Company, etc.

[Mk 1]

My game is a near-future WWIII scenario involving a generally East v. West conflict. In my scenario, MARFORCOM has decided to allocate the majority of the marine combat forces to the pacific in an island hopping campaign against Chinese PLA Marines (eventually culminating in a liberation of the Japanese Islands and Korean Peninsula).

Ooh, sounds like fun!

One such case is Operation Frost Bite where several MEUs take part in a landing across the Baltic to liberate the Russian occupied Scandinavian Peninsula. (Just try and picture that for a moment )

As I understand it, the USMC has often excersized with the Norwegians, as their anticipated assignment within NATO was on the Scandinavian Peninsula. So I imagine there are more than a few Marines who could "picture that" quite well!

Anyways my Marines will be built around these sorts of missions in a 1:1 scale. I don't think I'll have any full strength battalions, but rather a few companies, working in conjunction such as a Rifle Company, Armor Company, AAV company, LAR Company, etc.

Sounds like a good plan.

I did mostly moderns in the 80s and 90s. At that time I usually had to supply both sides if I wanted to do any gaming. After several years of gaming NATO central front kinds of actions, with M60A3s and mech infantry in M113s, my large Soviet force begged for new and interesting opfors, and I wasn't too keen on just continuing the same vector with Abrams and Bradlies.

So much as you intend, I put together a USMC force with a rifle company, a LAV "light armored" company, and an M1A1 tank company (or M60A1 tank platoon). I had some LVTP-7s and two LCACs as potential "lift" resources, and two Huey SeaCobras, two F/A-18s, and four Harriers in support.

But my thinking was not so much for specific well-considered campaign scenarios. Rather, I felt that quick-reaction forces vs. Russians (or Chinese, or third-world) would be a rich mine of possible gaming scenarios. So then I also put together a French force of similar size, with VABs, AMX-10RCs, AMX-10s, Leclercs, and a few 'copters and Mirage F1s.

If I were playing moderns these days (which I would much enjoy, if I could come upon a modern ruleset I liked) the GHQ Chinese kit would be tops on my list for new purchases. USMC vs. Chinese -- yep, lots there for creative gaming scenarios!

[HKurban]

Glad to hear I'm not too off base with my scenario ideas.

One thing I could not find in the Marine thread is how LAV-ATs would be employed in an LAR Platoon given my scenario. What would the ratio be of LAV-25s to LAV-AT in an LAR platoon? Or would the AT vehicles be in a platoon of their own and detached out to other units like members of a Weapons Platoon are.

As it stands, I have 7 LAV-25s, 3 LAV-ATs broken up into 2 squads (4+1 and 3+2) as well as a company command element LAV-C2 and two free floating LAV-Rs.

[chrisswim]

In the 1990's the Marines would have two sections/squad in each LVTP-7, thus two vehicles to the platoon. At some point with a down-sized military, the allocation would be one squad per LVTP-7, thus 4 vehicles used for a platoon. Able to carry more equipment and 12 guys plus an AT team, or AA team in an LVTP-7.

From reading and speaking with Marines, the LVTP-7 did not carry 25-26 Marines. Had equipment to move too. Hopefully you find that helpful.
Chris

[ShortRound70]

HKurban:

The most recent information that I have is from 2009. An Amphibious Assault Vehicle Company is as follows:

Company HQ: HQ Section 2xAAVP-7A1; Command Section 2xAAVC-7A1; Maint. Section 2xAAVP-7A1, 1xAAVR-7A1; General Support Section 3xAAVP-7A1

3xLine Platoons: each with 12xAAVP-7A1 (4xSections of 3 Tracks each)

The 25-man passenger load has been dropped. A normal "Boat Load" is 18 men and gear. (1xRifle Squad and supports)

As for the LAR Company:

Company HQ: 1xLAV-25, 1XLAV-C3

Maint. Section: 1xLAV-L (Supply), 1xLAV-R (Recovery)

3xLine Platoons: each with 4xLAV-25 (plus 4-man fireteam per LAV) (2xSections of 2xLAV/Scouts each)

Attached Weapons Platoon: 4xLAV-AT (TOW), 2xLAV-M (81mm mortar)

Hope that this is what you were looking for. You could look up USMC Publication "MCWP 203-13 Employment of Amphibious Assault Vehicles" or check the AAV Battalion's homepage.

SemperFi! Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to All!

Gary

BTW, I like your scenario idea. Lot's of possibilities.


(Edited 21Dec10)

[Robwolf]

As stated above, the tracks aren't part of any company, and the mentioned company transportations, (Tracks, Zodiac, Helo) are typically how each company of the BN deploys from ship to shore. Starting with the Zodiacs with alpha Co. usually going in the night before to secure a beachhead and prepare for the landing teams. IIRC they almost never squeeze 25 Marines into one track. With full combat load thats not really possible. When not attached to an infantry Co. tracks are organized very differently. I don't have my notes with me so i can't give the specifics. However a platoon of tracks is much larger when its by itself, but this only happens when they aren't working with anybody, which is never. What good is an amphib if no-body is onboard?

[chrisswim]

It is good a decoy. Expect a USMC landing on the left...and opps, helos on the right.