It seems that I have failed to keep up my recovery vehicle inventory to the point my forces are gravely short. At the 2-per-pack rate, the cost is prohibitive, even over an extended period, and I also don't need that many M578s.
An H-series (M60 tank series in the 1960s and 70s) required five M88s and 2 M578s. Since the transition to J-series TOE in the mid-80s, tank and mech battalions have each had 7 M88s and zero M578s. I face a shortage of 58 M88s, but only 17 M578s.
Any chance of a 4- or 5-pack of M88s to help my "bite-at-a-time" effort at filling these slots? The combo pack is still useful for units such as 155 SP, which use M578s in the batteries, but have 2 M88s in the battalion maintenance section, or H-series tank and mech units.
Recovery vehicle packaging
Moderators: dnichols, GHQ, Mk 1
-
panzergator
- E5
- Posts: 3466
- Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:44 am
Recovery vehicle packaging
All blessings flow from a good mission statement.
Pogo was right. So was Ike.
"A Gentleman is a man who is only rude intentionally." (Churchill)
Give credit. Take responsibility.
Pogo was right. So was Ike.
"A Gentleman is a man who is only rude intentionally." (Churchill)
Give credit. Take responsibility.
-
Extra Crispy
- E5
- Posts: 992
- Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 7:56 pm
- Location: Edgewater, NJ
- Contact:
-
panzergator
- E5
- Posts: 3466
- Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:44 am
Extra Crispy,
That is exactly what I do - build and model units. It satisfies my OCD. Played Dunn-Kempf at the Armor Advanced Course and I was hooked. I DID like the concept of commanders being in rooms unable to see the board and running the battle only on the basis of the reports they got, but I don't have the patience for the gaming - rules, rolling dice, etc.
What do you mean, what do I do with 'em? If I DID game, surely rules would include recovery of broken and shot up vehicles. As a former Armor officer, I know the importance of vehicle recovery, not to mention having an M88 to help. In my other life, I spent two years as the maintenance officer in a tank battalion in Germany, so I have an appreciation for those old beasts of burden. Ours were gassers, too, and the crews could make 'em ROAR! They spent hours and hours on weekends finetuning the engines. Much to my chagrin, one night, as it turned out. One night after a surprise alert and rollout, my two "88s" decided to race back to the motor pool and I, unfortunately both behind them and in a puny little jeep, could do nothing but follow and fume. And pray. As the mechanic-soldiers I worked with used to say, "We may not be the pride of the battalion, but without us, pride don't ride!"
I am not COMPLETELY without recovery vehicles. I have just been concentrating on other things. It may be time to catch up.
That is exactly what I do - build and model units. It satisfies my OCD. Played Dunn-Kempf at the Armor Advanced Course and I was hooked. I DID like the concept of commanders being in rooms unable to see the board and running the battle only on the basis of the reports they got, but I don't have the patience for the gaming - rules, rolling dice, etc.
What do you mean, what do I do with 'em? If I DID game, surely rules would include recovery of broken and shot up vehicles. As a former Armor officer, I know the importance of vehicle recovery, not to mention having an M88 to help. In my other life, I spent two years as the maintenance officer in a tank battalion in Germany, so I have an appreciation for those old beasts of burden. Ours were gassers, too, and the crews could make 'em ROAR! They spent hours and hours on weekends finetuning the engines. Much to my chagrin, one night, as it turned out. One night after a surprise alert and rollout, my two "88s" decided to race back to the motor pool and I, unfortunately both behind them and in a puny little jeep, could do nothing but follow and fume. And pray. As the mechanic-soldiers I worked with used to say, "We may not be the pride of the battalion, but without us, pride don't ride!"
I am not COMPLETELY without recovery vehicles. I have just been concentrating on other things. It may be time to catch up.
All blessings flow from a good mission statement.
Pogo was right. So was Ike.
"A Gentleman is a man who is only rude intentionally." (Churchill)
Give credit. Take responsibility.
Pogo was right. So was Ike.
"A Gentleman is a man who is only rude intentionally." (Churchill)
Give credit. Take responsibility.
-
Extra Crispy
- E5
- Posts: 992
- Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 7:56 pm
- Location: Edgewater, NJ
- Contact:
I get it now. Thanks, I was just kinda curious.
I am a game tinkerer first, game player second, modeler last. So for the most part they are game pieces for me. But I like a good looking game (otherwise I'd be a board gamer). I'm also a rules collector (over 500 sets of historical rules at last count - all eras). Having read *more* than my fair share I can say very few rules have any provision for recovery vehicles. Primarily because they come after the battle so to speak.
I've seen some more operational level games (one stand = one company) where recovery is important but you don't necessarily need separate models. They are assumed to be part of the appropriate stand(s).
I am a game tinkerer first, game player second, modeler last. So for the most part they are game pieces for me. But I like a good looking game (otherwise I'd be a board gamer). I'm also a rules collector (over 500 sets of historical rules at last count - all eras). Having read *more* than my fair share I can say very few rules have any provision for recovery vehicles. Primarily because they come after the battle so to speak.
I've seen some more operational level games (one stand = one company) where recovery is important but you don't necessarily need separate models. They are assumed to be part of the appropriate stand(s).
Mark Severin
Owner, Scale Creep Miniatures
Author DeepFriedHappyMice.com
Owner, Scale Creep Miniatures
Author DeepFriedHappyMice.com
-
panzergator
- E5
- Posts: 3466
- Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:44 am
Extra Crispy,
My wife must occasionally remind me that people cannot see my facial expression over the internet. I did not intend to come off so strongly. You cannot see my feigned indignity over the internet. Please accept my apologies.
If I were gaming, it may be that the recovery and medics would be placed, and the maintenance team M113s, to indicate the combat trains. The mnemonic for combat trains is "35mm, indicating Class III, Class V, maintenance, and medics. Others would be with field trains, along with the wrecker and trucks, to indicate a maintenance area co-located with the FAST. In a micro armor wargame, combat and field trains would provide additional targets and would have to be defended. Ammunition replenishment might be affected. Combat effectiveness or strength penalties could be assessed if a unit lost trains. In an attack or withdrawal, they would have to be jumped, along with CPs. More lucrative targets on roads, more careful choice of routes to mask movement, more work for recovery vehicles if a vehicle breaks or bogs down. More rolls of the dice to determine actions. I'm probably just dating myself doctrinally. I support the guys on the LEO ARV and would like to see a Brit ARV, as well, but I don't have a big requirement for anything but M88s.
As a platoon leader, I got some really good practice in how to recover a tank WITHOUT a recovery vehicle, but that can take at least one other tank, and maybe two. That really cuts combat power. We need those M88s!
My wife must occasionally remind me that people cannot see my facial expression over the internet. I did not intend to come off so strongly. You cannot see my feigned indignity over the internet. Please accept my apologies.
If I were gaming, it may be that the recovery and medics would be placed, and the maintenance team M113s, to indicate the combat trains. The mnemonic for combat trains is "35mm, indicating Class III, Class V, maintenance, and medics. Others would be with field trains, along with the wrecker and trucks, to indicate a maintenance area co-located with the FAST. In a micro armor wargame, combat and field trains would provide additional targets and would have to be defended. Ammunition replenishment might be affected. Combat effectiveness or strength penalties could be assessed if a unit lost trains. In an attack or withdrawal, they would have to be jumped, along with CPs. More lucrative targets on roads, more careful choice of routes to mask movement, more work for recovery vehicles if a vehicle breaks or bogs down. More rolls of the dice to determine actions. I'm probably just dating myself doctrinally. I support the guys on the LEO ARV and would like to see a Brit ARV, as well, but I don't have a big requirement for anything but M88s.
As a platoon leader, I got some really good practice in how to recover a tank WITHOUT a recovery vehicle, but that can take at least one other tank, and maybe two. That really cuts combat power. We need those M88s!
Last edited by panzergator on Thu Mar 24, 2016 2:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
All blessings flow from a good mission statement.
Pogo was right. So was Ike.
"A Gentleman is a man who is only rude intentionally." (Churchill)
Give credit. Take responsibility.
Pogo was right. So was Ike.
"A Gentleman is a man who is only rude intentionally." (Churchill)
Give credit. Take responsibility.
-
redleg
- E5
- Posts: 3809
- Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:02 am
- Location: Riverside, CA
I actually resorted to purchasing some M88s from a British manufacturer in 1/300 scale. I figured that they would be close enough to 1/285 to not be an issue. BAD MOVE! They were terrible....little lumps of lead that just barely resembled a vehicle. I threw them out. COuldn't even use them as impact area targets. I definitely want the M88s to fill out my units, but I can't justify the cost for just 2 vehicles.
-
panzergator
- E5
- Posts: 3466
- Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:44 am
Yes, I think I just looked at those. They looked too small, and I already thing the GHQ M88 is a bit on the small side. That manufacturer does make a pretty good M59 and M75 if you are looking for some ancient APCs. They are even close to the right size, but most of the line looks incompatible.
We will have to rely on GHQ to resolve our problem.
We will have to rely on GHQ to resolve our problem.
All blessings flow from a good mission statement.
Pogo was right. So was Ike.
"A Gentleman is a man who is only rude intentionally." (Churchill)
Give credit. Take responsibility.
Pogo was right. So was Ike.
"A Gentleman is a man who is only rude intentionally." (Churchill)
Give credit. Take responsibility.
-
kiasutha
- E5
- Posts: 439
- Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 9:10 pm
For what it's worth, CinC has a very nice M578 for about a buck and a half each.
No M88 though...
WW2 Germans have it just as bad.
Famo recovery semi tracks and Panther ARVs are 2 per, and Mark 3's are only ONE track and that great huge "winch thing" per...
Thank God the recovery tracks are too late war for me; and I bought my Famos from CinC.
No M88 though...
WW2 Germans have it just as bad.
Famo recovery semi tracks and Panther ARVs are 2 per, and Mark 3's are only ONE track and that great huge "winch thing" per...
Thank God the recovery tracks are too late war for me; and I bought my Famos from CinC.