Micronaut Only Thread

[pmskaar]

Your ships really look great. I have seen these in person and they are excellent.

Pete

[Attackcamel]

Those are very good looking, Begemot! Great work!

[battlewagon]

My IJN Atago class cruiser conversion to IJN Maya (1944) is completed. A while back I posted about my IJN Maya conversion project to replace the #3 8" turret with an anti aircraft gun cluster. I used sheet styrene to build the structure and pulled spare gun mounts from my spare parts bin, including a couple of AA mounts I "liberated" from the catwalk of one of my earlier carrier kits. I have two under construction photos and one photo of the finished product next to a sister ship. If anyone has any questions, you know where to find me...right here! Enjoy!

Side view before priming


Overhead view before priming


Finished product with sister ship in the background

[regia-marina]

Well, still no WW2 version of the Gneisenau. Has anyone modified a Scharnhorst? Just curious to see what others have done in order to fill the gap in the Kriegsmarine. Thanks!

[battlewagon]

I'm starting to think about doing it, but I have a late-war IJN Mogami conversion and a scratchbuild of an HMS Abercrombie class monitor already in progress. I will see if I have a "spare" Scharnhorst kit lying around just in case.

[regia-marina]

I'll be looking forward to hearing about it Battlewagon I'm thinking about picking up a Scharnhorst and staring reconstruction.

[battlewagon]

Here are some work in progress photos of my HMS Roberts scratchbuild / kitbash:

First, the "kit"


Basic construction:
Starboard side view


Overhead view:


I scavenged the superstructure from a spare HMS Hood kit (I already used the stacks for my USS Lexington CC-1 build) and found a smokestack and after tripod mast and the various turrets in my parts bin. Add an 1/8" thick piece of balsa wood strip stock for the hull and plastic tube and strip stock for the deck houses and the barbette respectively. I am about halfway done and I need to decide if I am building straight from the balsa hull, or if I want to make a resin casting of my basic hull without any aftermarket parts installed before completing the build. Next up is to cut an upper deck from a very thin sheet of sheet styrene. I will provide updates as the build progresses.

[Mikee]

Regia-Marina,

Saw your note about the Gneisenau. I kit-bashed a GHQ Scharnhorst to make a Gneisenau, but took the easy way out.

(1) I cut of the Scharnhorst mainmast and aircraft "stuff", and replaced it with n AC hanger I took off a CinC Gneisenau model I've had for years. Put a GHQ aircraft and launcher on it. (Actually, I had someone else cut off the unnecessary parts. I'm getting a bit clumsy in my old age, and he had tools I don't.)

(20 I stuck a piece of the Scharnhorst mainmast into a hole I drilled into the aft end of the platform on the funnel.

I think that's all I did, but the model is buried in my closet at the moment, so I can't confirm.

Incidentally, given your on-line name, have you been painting the Italian camouflage patterns on 2400 scale ships? I've done most of them, but right now I'm considering trying to paint the Riboty pattern on a couple of CinC Mirabellos (One for me and one for a friend). That ship's so small that I'm not sure I can do it successfully.

[Mikee]

Battlewagon,

Do you know that Shapeways has a 2400 scale Roberts in that resin stuff? Either "Squint 181" or "Tiny thingmajigs" produces the design, if you're interested in looking it up, and Shapeways does the 3D printing. I got one awhile ago and painted it in the Abercrombie pattern shown in one of Alan Raven's books.

[battlewagon]

Mikee,

I did not know that about the existing kit...but I like a challenge and I have a ridiculous number of spare parts at my disposal.

If you find your modified "Gneisenau" please post a picture. I came across a 1/1200th scale Gneisenau recently and will use that for a 3D reference. I don't have an un-built Scharnhorst in my inventory at the moment so it may be a while for me.

[regia-marina]

Regia-Marina,



Incidentally, given your on-line name, have you been painting the Italian camouflage patterns on 2400 scale ships? I've done most of them, but right now I'm considering trying to paint the Riboty pattern on a couple of CinC Mirabellos (One for me and one for a friend). That ship's so small that I'm not sure I can do it successfully.

It can be done. I use a lot of magnification, blue tape and the finest paintbrush that I have. I have uploaded some of my camo jobs on pages 1 and 5 of this thread. Let me know if I can answer anything else.

I hope you can upload a picture of your Gneisenau. Any modification advice is appreciated!

[dragon6]

It has irked me that no one seems to make a South Dakota at her most famous actions, Santa Cruz where she claimed 26 Japanese aircraft shotdown or Second battle of Guadalc*nal.

GHQ's model, USN71, has the post 1943 AA fit. In particular the 40mm mounts on the bow and aft 16" turret.

Alabama appears to have a close fit for the AA, 20mm forward but a pair of quad bofors on the aft maindeck where South Dakota, in 1942, would have had 4 single 20mm on each side. Of course the superstructure is incorrect, for South Dakota, with five 5" turrets on each side. Alabama seems to have 20mm on her second turret but no picture I've found is clear enough to tell if the aft turret has a quad bofors or more 20mm.

I do not have either model but, for those of you who do, would the South Dakota superstructure fit on the Alabama? Of course they are the same class but they may not be modeled the same, for instance some part might be cast on the hull on one model and be a separate piece on the other or even a major part be cast as part of the hull on both making it impossible to switch.

[Unfathomable]

Back after many months away, busy with business.

Was wondering if anyone could help with a question. I've asked it before but it was either lost in the tumult or no one knew. But its holding me up now and my own online research is getting me nowhere.

Does anyone know the proper colouring of the courticene (or its equivalent) for German Great War vessels, particularly the smaller ones such as destroyers or TBDs?

I know they were a dark grey, almost black, as far as their superstructure went, but its filling the decking portions of bridge and bridge wings and such that's got me stumped. The RN colour looks wrong, but that could just be bias.

Any ideas?

[dragon6]

Sorry, on my phone, I don't have the links handy but Mal Wright posted a generic colours of WW1 navies at theminiaturespage, Thomo the Lost has it on his homepage, and I believe a copy is on the yahoo 1/3000 navwar board

IIRC it's reddish brown, certainly it is on the crusiers (grr stupid spellchecker) and larger with 2? inch wide brass strips on the seams.

edit

As with the British, cortesine was used on many ships instead of wood. It saved weight, but was not as cold underfoot for the crews as steel. The German version was a bright tan with a reddish touch. (Rich reddish-brown would suffice on a model.) It would normally be found on bridge decks, lookout positions, etc. German light cruisers often had more cortesine than wood.

Torpedo boats and destroyers were painted black for most of the war. An excellent result can be obtained by using Grimy Black (found in railway hobby colours). If you can't find that, then an extremely dark charcoal-grey gives the right effect. Later they went to mid-grey and light grey, or a combination of both. They were generally easy to spot from British destroyers, as they normally had a stump foremast and tall mainmast carrying radio aerials.

I've managed to forget which author published the following on the web, I suspect it's from the ship camouflage site because of the paint brands suggested and I've never seen Mal use a RAL paint number but...

German Navy
The Germans used a similar material (linoleum) but it was a pale tan in colour.
As with the British, it was common for large areas of horizontal deck around the funnels to be painted in matt black.

German cortesine was often tan. Many German torpedo boats and destroyers seem to have had black. British cortesine was usually chocolate brown.

In general information of the exact layout of each class is hard to find. Therefore you are pretty safe what ever you apply.

The SMS (High Seas Fleet) did not have colors defined by the RAL-system. An participant of WW 1 serving on SMS Derfflinger gave the following explaination:

A base white color was delivered in solid blocks. These blocks were diluted in metal buckets with either gasoline, petroleum or in seldom occasions even with lubrication oil. The buckets were then put next to the part of the ship that has to be painted and under the supervision of an officer or NCO the white paint was mixed with previously grinded coal until the shade of grey matched almost the old color.

This procedere would btw. explain why the ships of the IGN appear darker and darker as the war continues. Wet paint is lighter than dried paint. So if you mix wet color to match dry paint, the appearance will be slightly different.

So my conclusion is, that one is not totally wrong if white and black paint is mixed - 9:1 for the hull and 10:1 for the superstructure.

Regarding the color of steel decks of WW 1 german warships:

the paint applied served two functions:

- anti-corrosion
- non-skid

The common method to achieve both things was, to prime the steel with tar and before drying (usually during the application) adding a surface layer mixed of 95 % edgy sand (0-2 mm size) plus 5 % cement. The tar protected the steel from corrosion, the surface layer provided the non-skid effect.
For tilted surfaces requesting non-skid safety, the last layer was a cotton-fabric. This happend not too often and I have found it so far on smaller units only (Minesweepers, T-Boats, Destroyers, etc.).

Naturally this mixture was sort of adhesive to dust and salt. While a fresh deckpaint looked almost black, its color changed quickly into a dark shade of grey, like antracite grey RAL 7016.
For some ships I saw reports stating that the application itself and the non-skid effect was even better, if sand and cement were mixed with the tar prior to the application.

This btw. explains also why on german capital ships of WW 1 some areas (those, where the officers were doing their duty) were covered with linoleum - tar underneath your shoes would spoil the carpets in their cabins and messes...

Battleships, Armoured and Small Cruisers (North Sea and Baltic Sea):
Superstructures, Light Grey, RAL 7035—use Colourcoats RN 03;
Hull, Agate Grey, RAL 7038—use Colourcoats KM 13 (exact match);
Boot-topping, Slate Grey, RAL 7015—use Colourcoats KM 06;
Underwater Hull, Brownish-Red, RAL 3011— use Colourcoats US 14.

Ship's Boats:
Exterior, Pure White, RAL 9010—use Colourcoats C 03;
Interior, Bright Wood—use Colourcoats US 15;
Captain's Gig, Dark Blue to Black—use Colourcoats KM 07 for Dark Blue, or C 02 for Black;
Motor Boats, Light Grey, RAL 7035— use Colourcoats RN 03;
Steam Boats, Mahogany—use Colourcoats US 15;
Deck/Linoleum, Red-Brown, RAL 8012—use Colourcoats ACSM 11;
Deck/Wood, Birch or Maple Veneer—use Colourcoats IJN 09 or C 01.

[Unfathomable]

Dragon 6, that is priceless information. I'll find if useful and now that it's up I'm sure at some point others will, too,

It's great that its up there.

Seems that almost anything goes when it comes to German WWI small craft and their deck sealants. Browning down a classic R.N. cortecine seems the wisest all-around bet.

(I like the idea of light tan veneers, but from a modeller's perspective I'm afraid the contrast to my almost-back lacquered hulls and superstructure would look cartoonish.)

And all that info on the colour schemes of the ship's boats! That's classic, pure gold. I've never seen it detailed that well.

Which leads me to colour coats - is anyone else worried about running out now that they've gone out of business? We're talking the late great White Ensign Colourcoats, right? I'm saving my remaining stash for "important" models, though Humbrol Matte 70 is a close match to White Ensign's R.N. Cortecene.

Thanks again.