Modern Micro Armor: The Game - Question re: Command Value

RedLeif · Post by **RedLeif** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:52 pm

Hello WHM,
A couple of thoughts/ideas/questions: I think you may have combat issues, as well as spotting issues. but I'll talk about both.

so did your t74's "start" the game by moving onto the board?. Did the M48's attack them as they moved on the board? I wasn't clear on this from your description. If so the m48s may only conduct opportunity fire as they 'see' the t-74's move onto the board (check rule 7.05 page 10) during the t-74's movement if the m48s can see them (see LOS rules pg.8 [7.01 etc])

If the M48's didn't destroy them while moving on, the T74's should have moved into concealing terrain of some sort, if at all possible (and if there's nothing to hide in within 20 inches of their edge of the board well, Do you like your T74s' with some pink or no pink in the middle?)

Make sure you understand which terrain types are concealing and block LOS (see the terrain effects chart (TEC)). Also make sure you know how to use rule 7.01.06 (pg

! Its one of the most important rules of the game. If you'd like me to write further on this just say so.

second, and more importantly an attack is conducted by 'targeting' (identifying) 1 (ONE) stand as the target. Then you declare (and mark with a bead or marker) which stand(s) are conducting the fire. Once marked, they are conducting fire, whether they hit or not and whether the target is destroyed before you roll for them or not) Only these stands may fire on the target during this phase. A cohesion roll 'to fire' is made (applying mods for the terrain that the defender is in, and S and or D effects on the attacker, where applicable - to the die roll result) for each attacking stand. Each success means you go on to the CRT process. You roll 2d6, modified by range, and look up the result and apply it to the target. repeat untill all declared attackers have made at least a cohesion roll or the stand is 'E'd on this one target.
Then its the Soviet's turn to shoot back (as those tricky, concealed m48's on the hill have exposed themselves by firing on comrad Ivan, god rest his soul) or if this is op fire during the movement phase, its the soviets turn to move the next model that succeeded its 'to move' cohesion roll.

By the way, the rule book doesn't contain the range effects chart (oops), but you can get it from the Combat Table Cards link, under the Modern heading of the Free Stuff section of this website. http://www.ghqmodels.com/pdf/GHQModernCTC.pdf

Did this help WHM? Let me know if you have further questions or issues.

regards,
RedLeif

WHM · Post by **WHM** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:00 pm

RedLeif;

Thanks for the reply, appreciate it.

The overall battlespace is 4ft by three. The terraing is mostly open farm w/some hills, two farm complexes. The 74s eneterd the board to the east on the terrain's one main road. To the west is the river and crossing the river is a small bridge withe road leading to a small town and off the board. Two ridges are on either side of the town. One ridge has three 48s and two are in improved positions on ground level nect to the ridge and town to cover in case the 74s get across. The ridge south of the town was unoccupied.

Overall the size of the terrain is small but it took two movement turs for the 74s to get to the bridge. The 48s on the ridge fired at abouut 1800 meters and the other two in improved positions fired on the lead 74 as it first came onto the bridge. The lead 74 took two Ds and was judged destroyed. Three of the 74s in column behind were supressed and the fiftth 74 was not fired upon. The reason for lack of deployment was the 74s were unaware of the 48s being there and their orders were to baja to the Rhine and stop for nothing.

The 74s have movement spped of 20" but it still took two turns to reach the bridge. Opp. Fire was not used since both vehicles were TL3. It wasn't until the 2nd movement was completed the 74s were in range to fire.

The assumption was the 48s were in turret down and then went to hull down to engage. I may have cheated myself since I did not take a cohesion for this short move since the 48s are actually skylined so I used the assumption of their positioning. I did take cohesion roles for the 74s to move and for the 48s to fire. Should point out do to the seperation of the 48s they had two movement groups. What I did not do was to take into account the orders given by the command track for either side. The 74s were considered for both movement and battle group to be one and the same.

As the 74s moved along the road I could not help but feel there should be some mecahnizm in place to reflect the possibility by thru optics/binos a 74 crewman would notice the 48s. Also it seems odd that after a surprise 1st volley on the 74s they should be able to get a return fire.

It just seems awkward.

I hope this gives a better explalnation.

TAMMY · Post by **TAMMY** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:48 pm

I have a few commens on this action.

You say the table is 48" (long) by 36" (wide). This do not match with the given numbers,

Two moves at 20" make 40" and still the M48 open fire at 18" (1800 meters). The road is so winding? The tabke is 48" long and I suppose that the M48 are not exactly on its eastern edge.

Moreover the road should be a poor road otherwise the T-74 would cover it at double speed (cost of 0,5 movement point for 1").

As the T-74 are in a contiguous columns column (one stand tochingb another), I doubt that the 5 M-48 deployed north of the town may have a free LOS on all of them. The LOS is a straight line from center to center of stand and vehcles block it.

The M48 have an AP of 12 againbst a T-74 defense of 15. This mean an attack at -3 without modifier. You get a +1 modifier on the "to hit" 2 D6 roll. So you have a minimum result of 3 on CRT. You need two S to get a D. So you cannot have two D on the first tank.

As I read the rules the T-74 could anwer to the fire. They are TL3 and only vehicle TL1 need to be in "fire posture" to fire. In this case the fire sequence is 2xM48 against the first t-74, The second T-74 answer to the fire against one M-48 and so on.

Note that the M-48 behind the ridge are unvisible till they fire. Besides the T-74 pay the penalties fo the terrain in which the target is.

TAMMY · Post by **TAMMY** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:48 pm

I have a few commens on this action.

You say the table is 48" (long) by 36" (wide). This do not match with the given numbers,

Two moves at 20" make 40" and still the M48 open fire at 18" (1800 meters). The road is so winding? The tabke is 48" long and I suppose that the M48 are not exactly on its eastern edge.

Moreover the road should be a poor road otherwise the T-74 would cover it at double speed (cost of 0,5 movement point for 1").

As the T-74 are in a contiguous columns column (one stand tochingb another), I doubt that the 5 M-48 deployed north of the town may have a free LOS on all of them. The LOS is a straight line from center to center of stand and vehcles block it.

The M48 have an AP of 12 againbst a T-74 defense of 15. This mean an attack at -3 without modifier. You get a +1 modifier on the "to hit" 2 D6 roll. So you have a minimum result of 3 on CRT. You need two S to get a D. So you cannot have two D on the first tank.

As I read the rules the T-74 could anwer to the fire. They are TL3 and only vehicle TL1 need to be in "fire posture" to fire. In this case the fire sequence is 2xM48 against the first t-74, The second T-74 answer to the fire against one M-48 and so on.

Note that the M-48 behind the ridge are unvisible till they fire. Besides the T-74 pay the penalties fo the terrain in which the target is.

TAMMY · Post by **TAMMY** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:55 pm

Sorry, double post.

WHM · Post by **WHM** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 6:08 pm

Tammy;

The road begins at the south east edge of the board and then junctions with another road running east/west. The three 48s on the ridge were north of the bridgw/road so they did have a direct field of fire to the 74s when they approached the bridge. I used the assumption the 74s were not aware of the 48s until they received fire. That should explain the LOS.

Two moves to go 40" was my mistake. One should have gotten them there. The road is a blacktop.

As the 74s were in column the two 48s in the improved positions guarding the bridge had a LOS to the first 74 in column and were able to hit it w/two (S) hits equating to a D. They did not have LOS to the other 74s, due to the colmn formation. Same w/the 74s not having LOS to the two 48s.

Based on your email I may have boloxed the combat results so will need to relook at that. Regardless, the 74s were in movement posture so don't think they could return fire yet. if I recall correctly they are either in a movement posture or if halted by default in fire posture.

I think the turn ends there and the new one would start. Then the 74s can open fire.

By the way the +1 modifies mentioned, I assume that is from the Range Effects Chart?

Thanks

TAMMY · Post by **TAMMY** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:05 pm

WHM

Yes the +1 penalty is for range. It is a +2 aboive 20" range.

As I read the rule 06.01.01 the T74 could fire as they are TL3 and the firing posture is required only for TL1 vehicles. This will change the game.

The two M48 in improved positions are hidden till they fire (concealing terrain) but those on the ridge are not.
In the first move there is no fire as the fire is before the movement. T-74s arrive near the briodge and you move in firing position the 3 M48s on the ridge

If the Russian get the initiative in the second move, he could fire against one of the M-48 on the ridge with how many tanks he can (LOS) and a +2 penalty for the terrain. Then the fire alternate. Remember that if you have a LOS on a target this has a LOS on you except in case of concealing terrain or facing restrictions.

BTW you are very lucky with your die roills. You rolle a 4 or 5 in the first roll "S" and a 2 or 3 in the seecondan (S) (I understand you did not use the range modifier).to get a "D" overall. If the other way round you will get a suppressed only..

WHM · Post by **WHM** » Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:02 pm

Thanks, I feel I have an imperfect understanding of the rules and will need to re-visit them but it still seems strange that tanks on a road in clear terrain and moving have the same LOS/visibility as tanks in a turret down/hull down position on a wooded ridge a few klicks away. Under these type circumstances I would assume players using these rules may come to an understanding of "I can see you but you can't see me until I open fire first".

When I played (technically still playing) the game it was 5 minutes here and 10 minutes there between running errands, getting the kids, making dinner, etc. and not a suatained period of time

I realize the tactical situation I explained put the 74s in a disadvantage, but I also have an independent tank regimant of 20 T-64s I comtemplated on using as a second wave.

TAMMY · Post by **TAMMY** » Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:52 pm

WHM
The "I can see you but you can't see me until I open fire first" is valid only for concealing terrain..

I have the impression that you misunendestand the mechanics of the rules. The LOS is simply a straight line center to center of stands and as such is a two ways line of sight except in case of target in concealing terrain.

. The difference in visibility is built in the modifier of firing procedure. See terrain effect charts

In your scenario a M48 on the ridge will fire to a T-74 in the open without modifier exceopt for range effect. A T74 will fire to a M48 behind the ridge with +2 both on cohesion & CRT die rolls in addition to range effect.

A T74 will answer to an M48 in iimprovged position with a +1 to +3 (depending on the type of improved) on CRT. It would be a +4 if the M48 was among heavy building..