Pop quiz

redleg · Post by **redleg** » Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:18 am

That's a lot of tanks in one battalion!

The M60 tanks had the M85 .50 cal machine gun. New because it was a cupola mounted machine gun.

panzergator · Post by **panzergator** » Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:37 am

Actually, the first M60s were issued with M2 on a pintle mount welded to the side of the cupola. The cupola was designed for the M85 and not adaptable to the M2, but the M85 was a new design and not yet ready for issue. Once the M85 became available, it was issued, the pintle mounts were removed, and the M2s turned in.

That was quick. Now I have to think of a new one, unless somebody else has a.quiz question to keep the thread going.

redleg · Post by **redleg** » Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:01 am

I didn't know that! I thought they all had the cupola MG. I learn something new every day!
I got lots of artillery questions if you're down for some Redleg pop quizes.

Start with an easy one.

What does the artillery use to measure angles? We don't measure in degrees!

panzergator · Post by **panzergator** » Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:08 am

The answer to your question is "mils."

Now, wbat is the difference between a "mil" and a "degree?"

Cav Dog · Post by **Cav Dog** » Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:17 am

I know what 40 mils means. . .

Donald M. Scheef · Post by **Donald M. Scheef** » Tue Mar 24, 2020 7:18 am

There are several different definitions for mil as a measure of angle:
The scientific mil is 1/1000 of a radian. This gives 2000 pi (about 6284) mils in a complete circle.
The NATO mil (probably what you mean) is i/6400 of a complete circle.
Warsaw Pact used 1/6300 of a circle.
For practical purposes, 1mil of deflection is a shift of 1 m at a range of 1 km.

Don S.

panzergator · Post by **panzergator** » Tue Mar 24, 2020 7:35 am

Well, redleg, Donald got it. Would you like to pose another?

panzergator · Post by **panzergator** » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:19 am

Ca V dog, how about a good cavalry stumper?

Mk 1 · Post by **Mk 1** » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:41 am

I have one. And I expect you guys will come up with the answer, but let's see.

The first time a US Armored Division engaged in tank vs. tank combat, who was the adversary?

(And for bonus points, what kind of tanks did the two sides use in this fight?)

-Mark

panzergator · Post by **panzergator** » Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:33 am

The first armor engagements by US forces in North Africa included 70th Independent Tank Battalion (US) and 1st Battalion, 1st Medium Tank Regiment (US), 1st Armored Division against Vichy French forces on or about 9 Nov. 1942. Tanks involved on the US side were M3 (probably A1 model). The French used FT17s against 70th Tank and R35s against Old Ironsides.

70th Tank was equipped only with M3 light tanks. 1st Armored had to leave its mediums behind initially because the available landing crafts' doors were not quite wide enough.

Edit - I should have specified that the M3s were Stuarts in both cases. The M3 Lees, in any case, I think, were with 2nd Armored Division, that division having given up its M4s to 1st Armored for the Torch operation and received M3 Lees as substitutes. Going from memory here, which can by iffy at my age.

Further edit - Gosh, I'm rusty! 70th Tank By was equipped with M5 Stuart's by the time of Torch. My apologies.

Donald M. Scheef · Post by **Donald M. Scheef** » Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:36 am

I'm going to guess on this one and include my reasoning.
There were very few tank vs tank combats during WWI and I'm pretty sure none of them involved US-crewed tanks.
Likewise, I don't think there were any tank vs tank combats during US involvement in Latin American banana republics.
Aside from this, the question specifies 'US armored division.' The First Armored Division was not constituted until July, 1940.
I believe there were some tank vs tank encounters during the Japanese invasion of the Philippines, but none of these involved a US armored division.
Therefore, I am guessing that the answer is the First Armored Division in the vicinity of Oran during Operation Torch, mid-November, 1942.
At this time the US tanks would have been M3 Stuart light tanks. The opponent would have been Vichy French, possibly using S35 tanks.

Don S.

Mk 1 · Post by **Mk 1** » Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:18 am

Good reasoning.

I'll give credit for answering the question correctly. Yes it was the French in 1942. Nov. 8 to be precise.

But on the bonus points ... very close, but no cigar.

According to the published timelines I have seen, it was not the 1st Armored Division in Algeria, but rather the 2nd Armored Division in Morocco.

7 M5 Stuart Tanks of 66th BAT of US2AD faced off against about 18-20 R-35 and H-35 tanks of 1e RCA on the Mehdia-Port Lyautey road. This combat appears to have happened about 45min to 1hr before the US1AD tanks were engaged in Algeria.

Notable in this engagement were:
1) The poor performance of the Stuarts' gunnery, attributed largely to the guns not being zero'd after their travels*.
2) The accurate gunnery of the French tanks, mitigated by the stout armor of the Stuarts. In particular Lt. Col. Semmes, commander of the Stuarts on the scene, was able to dig a French 37mm AP projectile out of the front plate of his Stuart. The notion that "Stuart's have stout armor" was not a useful lesson, and the impression didn't last long.
3) The accurate gunnery of the USN, which in fact did as much to drive off the French as the line of Stuarts holding the high ground.

*The Stuarts' travels included from their base to port, loading, traversing the Atlantic (the Morocco task force came from the US), being swayed into landing craft over the Atlantic swells, being landed through the surf onto the beaches, and the quick march to form a blocking position along the high ground south of Port Lyautey. So difficult was the process that only 7 tanks could be brought to combat-ready status in time for the action. Only the Stuarts could be landed on the beaches -- the US2AD's Sherman tanks had to be offloaded by cranes at dockside in the port of Safi, many miles to the south of Casablanca (which of course required that the port of Safi be captured first!).

At least that's what my research shows.

-Mark

panzergator · Post by **panzergator** » Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:35 am

I yield to your research, Mark, at the moment. This was a good question.

redleg · Post by **redleg** » Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:56 am

Wow! This is a great thread! I'm learning a lot on here!

panzergator · Post by **panzergator** » Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:01 am

Next question...

What is the difference between an artillery gun and an artillery howitzer? And a bonus question... What word is used to refer to an individual cannon?