Joint Task Force Pope

[redleg]

Thanks guys! I'll take some more artillery pics this weekend just for fun. Gotta keep the impact area hot!

The interior of the mortar carriers in a light green, but the color is a little distorted in the photo. i know there was some variation in the colors of internal vehicles, but the ones I was around always seemed to be a light green whereas the paladins an FAASVs were always white inside.

[redleg]

Sunday is Gun day! This afternoon 1-36 FA went downrange for some live fire. This is part of the 17th Field Artillery Brigade (1986). The paint jobs are decent, but I need to spruce them up a little bit.

A pair of big 8" guns:


A closeup of one of the gun sections:


Some maintenance in the field:


Some supply activity:


I have never seen an 8" gun section in action, so I am guessing at the placement of the M548. For Paladins, if we weren't shooting ammo right out of the FAASV it would be on overwatch somewhere. If we were shooting from it, it would be pulled up sideways. We never used the conveyor out of the back, and I am aware of several units removing the conveyor altogether.

An interesting sidenote: When I got to FAOBC we were told that the FAASVs were referred to as "Cats". For example, a slant report would be "guns / cats / FDC". We were told that the Cat moniker was from the M548, which had been replaced by the FAASV shortly before I went on active duty. Apparently the M548s were called Cats. Probably not the case anymore, but in my mind I still call them cats!

[panzergator]

MORE! MORE! ENCORE! Love it! Great pics! I never heard a 548 called anything but a 548, and my Arty friends say the same, but we were in a different Army, so who knows? Great paint! Get busy!

I am in my artillery unit building phase. Next up is adding an 18-piece M109A7 battalion (despite what I said earlier about J series - I'm always re-evaluating this stuff). Maybe 2. Still have to finish the first Stryker battalion, so may add a Stryker company, too. And insert a Panzerhaubitz battery in there somewhere. The hard part is the secondary vehicles over the primary. But your pics clearly illustrate the their importance to the picture of a unit.

Interesting info about the conveyor on the FAASV. Any reason?

[redleg]

Thanks PG! We should always be in the middle of an artillery building phase!

I have struggled over secondary vehicles for a long time as well, but the 3D printer has changed my mind somewhat. I had planned to build units with just the combat vehicles and a few key support platforms, but now I'm going to print things like trucks and HMMWVs and allocate my pewter budget to tanks, howitzers, and IFVs. There are some units that I have decided to just print 100% of the vehicles, but I do still prefer pewter when possible. I am working on a composite ADA battalion that is all printed to support the ACR that is currently about 95% pewter. And also a company of HETs. The quality is nowhere near pewter, but fortunately I don't have very high standards!

The issue with the FAASV conveyor was that it was time consuming to set up and break down. With the emphasis on being able to shoot and displace quickly, it was easier to just man-handle the rounds into the gun and drive away. My last unit just removed the conveyors and stuffed them into a conex in the motor pool so there was more room in the FAASV.

[panzergator]

3D printing is definitely the answer, with selective use of GHQ. I need to do this. Youngest has a resin printer sitting unused in his old room. Cogitating.

I have almost 3 divisions' worth of direct fire vehicles and odd units and a resin printer would really help with support vehicles. I need 2 more divartys. Plus extra, of course, for corps.

Time to look for more stls.

The current approach seems to be to put guns on trucks for more rapid movement, but I've watched a number YouTubes where wheeled vehicles were just not capable of moving on the gooseshit mud in Germany, arty, Strykers, etc, just can't get traction to get where they need to go. Cheap is no good if it can't do the job. Bite the bullet and stick with tracked arty.

[panzergator]

I DID notice that your M110 units have VERY OLD JEEPS, not M151s...

[redleg]

You have 3 divisions??? That's awesome! Once the DIVARTYs are done don't forget corps artillery! LOL

Maybe I shouldn't admit this, but I didn't know there was a difference between the M151 jeep and earlier models. I pulled them out of the rando box and painted them to go with the M110s. Maybe I need to do a little more research!

[panzergator]

The M151 began replacing the familiar jeep in 1959. If you had M110s you could pair jeeps with them.

[panzergator]

Ok. Placed orders for two more gun batteries for Brits, bringing their arty establishment to 5 gun batteries and a six-launcher missile battery. Ordered another Panzerhaubitz battery to bring the Germans up to 2 gun batteries and a six-launcher unit. Also ordered 18 M109A7s to form the first arty bn for the J series division. Gotta take a breather.

[panzergator]

There are plenty of pics of jeeps and 151s on the internet. Search, then look at Images.

[redleg]

That sounds like an awesome order, PG! No breathers - maintain the momentum!

I definitely need to do some research. I have a single company of M60A1s and I envision building a cold war unit with M60A1s, M60A2s, maybe some M48s, and a battalion of mech infantry in M113s with an ITV company. That's further down the to-do list though. Oh, and my M60A1 company only has 14 tanks (they had 17 back in the day right?) Most of my projects are set in the early 2000s.

[Cav Dog]

Redleg, great minds think alike. Up in the queue is a battalion task force with a company of mech infantry in M113s, a 17 tank company of starships and a 17 tank company of m60a1s.

I don't think historically those two tank types were ever mixed in a task force but it makes sense given the strengths and limitations of each. Once I get them painted up, I'll have to run a couple of scenarios where I pit a mech/m60a2 team against a programmed soviet tank battalion, the run it again with mech/m60a1s and then again with mixed mech/m60a2/m60a1s...

[panzergator]

In 3AD and 1AD, their two A2 battalions functioned simply as tank battalions, cross I attaching with mech battalions. My company, A/1-32 Armor, cross-attached to 2-48 IN(M) and my platoon went to a mech company. As time went on, the mission changed and we reinforced 11ACR on the border for the covering force mission.

In 3ID(M), however their one A2 battalion traded companies with two A1 battalions, so there were 3 tank battalions, each with two A1 companies and one A2 company. I don't know anything more about how the latter worked as I was rather busy in 3AD. 8ID(M) also had one A2 battalion, but I don't know how they handled theirs. There was an A2 battalion at Ft. Hood, but I don't know what was done with it, either.

In retrospect, mixing companies and platoons would have made the most of the advantages and disadvantages of both types. 2 A1 platoons to 1A2 platoon. A1s fired faster. A2s were slow to reload EITHER missile or gun round. The missile was more accurate at longer ranges, the 105 better for speed and intermediate and close ranges. The 152 gun rounds max effective range was 1500 meters, which is kinda ohshit close when you figure A2 reload and Russian rate of advance on rolling terrain. We needed to be covered by A1s from 2500 meters in and we could contribute MAYBE 3 rounds before we had to stand and die. In the knife fight, at that point... well, I'm STILL on the German hill.

Of course, the specific terrain and placement of each company must be carefully consuidered for each type.

[redleg]

That's good info, PG! And I am looking forward to seeing how the scenarios work out, CavDog!

And of course I will have to look into cold war artillery. Did you guys have M109s in 3AD and 1AD? What was the standard howitzer for DS battalions before the M109?

[panzergator]

I arrived in Friedberg in July of '75. It seemed to me that the Arty guys had M109 short barrel, but very soon got the A1. I was on some detail, school, or training or gunnery pretty much the whole first year. Not at home station much, so the memory is a bit flakey.

You have to go way back before my time to talk about the M109 predecessor. Try the M44 and M52. There was, for a very short time, the M108. The M44 was an open stopped vehicle with 155mm howitzer. The M52 had the 105mm in a turret. The M108 was the progenitor of the M109, having a 105mm gun. I don't think the latter lasted very long in active service as the move was being made to larger calibers in armored division DS and GS battalions.