Micro Armor Tentage

[Bad_Syntax]

Well this was MechInfBN level in 94-95 specifically, if that makes any difference.

No, we didn't use the extensions. The tracks would back up to each other, then we'd just put up the GP medium with all the tracks, with ramps down and horizontal (they sat on a 5 gal fuel can for stability). Walls of the GPM would be left up, or pulled to the side, so the tracks could back up to each other and be covered in the rain.

The back of the S-3 577, which I remember best, was pretty packed, well, about half full on the floor. We *never* did anything from within the 577s, they were just to haul crap. If the S3 or CO wanted to do some planning, they'd do so outside their HMMWV, or in the back of their M2 (I'd presume an army heavy bn would just use their HMMWV).

On that note, some commanders stayed in their HMMWVs exclusively, and their M2 would just sit outside the TOC (or near the support battalion TOC/maintenance areas). Actually, while I'm sure some commanders spend their time in the M2, I really can't recall ever seeing that. Maybe in war, but sure as heck not in training. The HMMWV was easier to communicate with the battalion in, faster, easier to get in/out of, lower profile and easier to hide, better range, and so forth.

I don't believe the modular system was an option back then. I did plenty of inventory, and don't remember any other tent systems. It may be one of those things created that the guys in the units just never liked, so never issued it out.

In hindsight, I don't think America knows how to fight without dominating the environment. The only wars we've fought with vehicles we've done so. One could argue vietnam we didn't dominate, but our kill ratio would beg to differ. In a war where that TOC needs the mobility as we had to fall back a lot, it wouldn't have survived very long. Perhaps the Soviets had some good ideas in that they didn't have those quick up-front TOCs commanding battalions, as they were too hard to defend in large engagements. The Russians did fight for years against an enemy that dominated them in most ways. That experience vs ours may be the reason why the Soviet's don't have the lower level command structure. I dunno, hindsight and all.

Really wish I would have taken more pictures while I was in

[panzergator]

Bad_Syntax,

I wasn't criticizing, I was just surprised at your unit's solution. My senior leaders operated out of their jeeps a lot, although a couple did use M113s, too. In tank battalions, I think the commanders had a hard time using their tanks and tended toward the M151s. I was most impressed with those who would stop by for a quick look at the mapboard, then go back out and frago on the move. We did use the interior of the 577s. We had maps and tables for some commo stations and briefing set up in the extension, but the TOC officer and NCO did most things from the map board and radios in the track. I suppose it's what one grew up with, and I was before First Gulf, which probably change a lot of procedures.

[Bad_Syntax]

Ya know, in hindsight, I'm betting every battalion did things a bit differently. We changed stuff with new battalion commanders, new S3s,even new CSMs (one HAD to have a coffee pot in the TOC, always ready for him).

I'd bet many TOCs just had somebody do something some way back in the day, and they just keep modifying that. 2 battalion TOCs in 2 mechinf BNs may have been completely different.

[redleg]

My command post experiences were pretty similar. For the most part the maneuver battalion TOCs and FA battalion TOCs were similar: 3 M577s in an L configuration with 2 SICPS tents if we were going to be in the same place for more than a few hours. That was Korea in 97-98 and Fort Carson 98-01. M577s were S2, S3, and fire support for mech and tank battalions; S2, S3, fire direction for the FA battalions.

In German I was the fire support officer for a mech battalion and that TOC was a little bigger because the maneuver battalions had a company from the combat engineer battalion attached and they brought their own M577. So that TOC had 4 SICPS tents with 4 M577s plugged into it: S2 and S3 on one side, fire support and engineers on the opposite side.

This was all for Grafenwoehr and Hohenfels though - when we got to Iraq we cut holes into the sides of buildings and backed te M577s in to make our TOC!

[panzergator]

Redleg,

If you search on "M577 tent extension" (without the quotes), you will bring up a number of possibilities. Scroll down until you see "Improved tent extension for M-577 Command Track." There will be more than one. Select the one with "www.dtic.mil/docs/citations/ADo780743. Click on the "Full Text" url. There is a very good description with great photos on the setup. It is the one I am familiar with. You can download it for further reference.

A prior post wondered how it was attached to the track. Remember, the idea was to be able to operate at night without showing light. The canvas was attached at the top and then on the sides of the track were metal strips with wing nuts. The canvas was worked behind the strip and then the wingnuts tightened. Entry and exit was facilitated by a triple curtain on the left side of the track. The larger curtain flies could be zipped in with the adjacent track, as well. If you're like me, you remember some things and not others. I know when my college buddies and I get together (we were all in the Army together, too) we each have a set of incomplete memories that, together, make up ALMOST a full set.

Like the earlier post, I wish I had taken more pictures when I was in the service. You take an awful lot for granted when you are young. But then, I DID have to concentrate on the tasks at hand and taking care of a camera, lenses, and film, along with all the other stuff I had to do wasn't much of a priority.

[Bad_Syntax]

In our unit, no tent was attached to the tracks.

The "light discipline" was ensured by walking around the tent at night, and somebody moving the tent around to hide the light. Not that it mattered that much, there'd be 20 chemlights on the ground outside at any given point anyway. They were never super bright on the inside, we had a few flourescent tubes we'd throw up, barely enough to read by. You didn't want it that bright, or when you walked outside at night you couldn't see your HMMWV.

This is all old school though, I'm pretty sure no TOC put up in the last 10 years wouldn't have just used some existing building. I'd bet that would happen in war too, take over some guys barn or something. Sure as heck a lot easier to pack up and run without breaking down/setting up a tent, plus weather sucks.

TOCs were always loud places too. Generator running (though we did put sandbags around it and sometimes dug a hole if we were going to be in 1 place a long time), tracks running to keep the batteries up, various vehicles around running to keep the drivers warm, and so forth.

On top of just battalion level Tank/Infantry TOCs, you also had *much* larger ones for the battalion mess areas, brigade support areas (lots of tents, with support folks doing horrible jobs at security, though sometimes they may have combat arms attached), and larger TOCs got pretty considerable.

Each TOC does its own thing though, I wouldn't be surprised if there were units where the 3 M577s just backed up and dropped ramps, and didn't even put up cover, with everybody working out of the back. Total doable, and we had plans do that in high threat situations, but the best TOC is effective *and* mobile.

I'm kinda surprised they don't just build a full blown TOC into the back of a HEMTT, with everything needed. They are very mobile, fast, and could have a lot of internal space. Just *seems* like it'd make more sense than 3 vietnam era tracks. Plus, the HEMTT could be much more modular, allowing the whole container to be pulled off, upgraded, and replaced, with ease. Oh well, not like I have a say in this stuff, and when I was in, nobody cared about technology

[redleg]

I do remember the wing nut setup to attach the canvas to the track as well. As I recall the SICPs had a roof panel and wall panels that all attached to the frame ad to each other with velcro. I believe we referred to the piece tat attached to the track as the "boot" and then there were different wall panels - some with windows, some with doors, some solid walls, etc. I also recall our SOP having 3 different TOC configurations: "Red" was when we were ready to displace at a moments notice so it was just the tracks backed up to each other with the ramps down and the map board out. "Amber" was ready to move in 10 minutes or so and it consisted of the SICPs frames with the roof, but no walls and o OE-254 antennas. "Green" was the full TOC setup when e weren't going anywhere any time soon.

[redleg]

I shouldn't take the thread in another direction....but I'm going to. All this talk reminded me of a couple funny memories.

In regard to noise and light discipline, I am reminded of my time at the Field Artillery Officer Basic Course. The senior NCOs loved to abuse us newly commissioned 2LTs and we often found ourselves out n the middle of nowhere at Fort Sill in the middle of the night. As we occupied a new firing position, laid the guns, and dug in those big M198s the NCOs would berate us for poor noise and light discipline. They didn't seem to care that we were blasting away with 155mm artillery 5 minutes later, and they didn't want to discuss it either!

I also recall a trip to the V Corps main CP in Germany in 2001 during a Corps Warfighter CPX. I was on 1st ID staff ad we reported to the Corps CP - a giant Drash tent that we thought resembled a circus tent. And just before the briefing started they fired up the popcorn machine!

[Ben]

I'm kinda surprised they don't just build a full blown TOC into the back of a HEMTT, with everything needed. They are very mobile, fast, and could have a lot of internal space. Just *seems* like it'd make more sense than 3 vietnam era tracks. Plus, the HEMTT could be much more modular, allowing the whole container to be pulled off, upgraded, and replaced, with ease. Oh well, not like I have a say in this stuff, and when I was in, nobody cared about technology

In my opinion the M4 Command and Control Vehicle would have been an improvement. Unfortunately it seems that only a limited number has been built.

Cheers,
Benjamin

[panzergator]

Agree about the M4. More room, scoots immediately, no canvas to break. We need to be able to move often. No canvas. Tracked vehicles. But I believe it also fell victim to Sequestration. Our services are withering on the vine.

[nashorn88]

You can make the tent with some clay and green stuff
Just from clay to a tent shape and flatten out some green stuff and lay over the clay.
Will Kinda form some of those folds and you can make more and a X-Acto knife.

[nashorn88]

You can make the tent with some clay and green stuff
Just from clay to a tent shape and flatten out some green stuff and lay over the clay.
Will Kinda form some of those folds and you can make more and a X-Acto knife.

[redleg]

I had my command post set up in the living room a couple of nights ago wen my 6-year old daughter asked why she didn't have a command post. I started to put her TOC together, bu then she informed me that some little green tents would not be acceptable for a warrior princess. So after some negotiation we settled on a slightly larger, more colorful TOC.

[/img]http://i.imgur.com/JhMWDjy.jpg[/img]

[/img]http://i.imgur.com/Txne571.jpg[/img]

[/img]http://i.imgur.com/MdMn8zi.jpg[/img]

[av8rmongo]

Try editing your image lines to change the first [/img] to just

[chrisswim]

Your daughter wins, that stuff is toooooooo COOL, you sir need a new army. Smack down!!