GHQ should write "fourth ship in the zara class"
I would say that he main visual difference of the Pola was the connctio betwenn the control tower sn the forwsrd funnel.
The French navy too will be hypotheticaal With four Algerie class cruisers.
Micronaut Only Thread
Moderators: dnichols, GHQ, Mk 1
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WWIICentral
- E5
- Posts: 169
- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 6:59 am
- Contact:
Unfathomable: Sorry, just saw your questions. Here's are some answers:
1. That is just shading... take the base color and lighten it with white and paint the shading. It takes a little practice but adds some very noticeable contrasting.
2. To be honest, it's taken me several years to get my washes to a point that I like. I now use acrylics but you can easily achieve the same results with enamels. Enamels almost do the work for you, but I don't like the fumes. I also spray the models with dullcote after which helps soften the wash... maybe that's what you're missing?
3. I airbrush the base coat of the model and then I brush paint the deck, details, highlights, wash, etc.
4. Yep! I-94 Enterprises makes the decals. Google their site (can't post link here)
5. Again, this is a practice thing... I hardly ever look at the gauge anymore; I do what feels like the right pressure. I started out by following other's examples and my AB ALWAYS clogged with paint. The best advice I can give is to keep with it.
6. You should see some of my earliest work... not pretty... I'm not sure how to answer this because I get what you're saying; it's not just as easy as flicking the brush around and spraying a little paint. It's taken me 8-9 years to get to this point
I'm not sure If I've shared this with you before, but I put together a tutorial that uses a simple enamal spray can. Sure, it's not shaded, but in my opinion the results can be pretty darn good: http://ww2central.com/decal-tutorial.html
Dragon6 - take a look at the tutorial above, there is a step regarding the wash. If you look at the Island and the Funnel, you'll see what the wash looks like. It tends to clean up pretty well when sprayed with Dullcote. I use Vallejo Black and Brown wash (not "Model Wash" but the washes similar to the Flames of War paint set).
Thanks for the kind words, I hope this is helpful.
Tanner
1. That is just shading... take the base color and lighten it with white and paint the shading. It takes a little practice but adds some very noticeable contrasting.
2. To be honest, it's taken me several years to get my washes to a point that I like. I now use acrylics but you can easily achieve the same results with enamels. Enamels almost do the work for you, but I don't like the fumes. I also spray the models with dullcote after which helps soften the wash... maybe that's what you're missing?
3. I airbrush the base coat of the model and then I brush paint the deck, details, highlights, wash, etc.
4. Yep! I-94 Enterprises makes the decals. Google their site (can't post link here)
5. Again, this is a practice thing... I hardly ever look at the gauge anymore; I do what feels like the right pressure. I started out by following other's examples and my AB ALWAYS clogged with paint. The best advice I can give is to keep with it.
6. You should see some of my earliest work... not pretty... I'm not sure how to answer this because I get what you're saying; it's not just as easy as flicking the brush around and spraying a little paint. It's taken me 8-9 years to get to this point
I'm not sure If I've shared this with you before, but I put together a tutorial that uses a simple enamal spray can. Sure, it's not shaded, but in my opinion the results can be pretty darn good: http://ww2central.com/decal-tutorial.html
Dragon6 - take a look at the tutorial above, there is a step regarding the wash. If you look at the Island and the Funnel, you'll see what the wash looks like. It tends to clean up pretty well when sprayed with Dullcote. I use Vallejo Black and Brown wash (not "Model Wash" but the washes similar to the Flames of War paint set).
Thanks for the kind words, I hope this is helpful.
Tanner
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WWIICentral
- E5
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- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 6:59 am
- Contact:
Just wanted to share some photos of some recently completed Carriers.
Let me know what you think!
My Blog has some additional photos.
Let me know what you think!
My Blog has some additional photos.
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Unfathomable
- Posts: 71
- Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:17 pm
- Location: Beyond the Horizon
As ever, totally blown away. Just can't say too much lest I run the risk of this thread becoming a love-in.
And thanks for taking the time to make a thorough point-by point reply. As always, the time and effort are much appreciated.I admit that I'd been hoping for some kind of shortcut, some tricky advice to speed improvement. What you said sounds suspiciously like it could be summarised as, 'practice for another 10 years". While no doubt true, I find that answer no more satisfying that when it was given at various times in the past by my music teachers, physics tutors, sports coaches, art teachers, guidance councillors, parents and parole officers.
Now to another topic, a general one. I have a question to put out to the group and the immediate answer seems so painful obvious that I'm having trouble getting information on the subject at all - as if the topic was so well known that no one now bothers to talk about it. Or, more to the point, I can't get uniform answers. Many people and sources have told me a great many different things though there's always a difference in the details.
It concerns early U.S. naval paint schemes. When I started I painted all my old U.S. vessels (pre-dreads and such) in a dark blue. It looked great and gave the fleet its own distinct look, which I found pleasing. The reason I went with this colour is that I saw footage of the USS Texas as a museum ship and it was painted in a blue so dark it was almost black. I thought it looked very different and menacing and so was happy to start producing a fleet along those lines.
Once this fleet was progressing and I'd committed to a number of units I discovered that this blue was only applied much later, perhaps in WWII. Yes, it was an early vessel but it acquired a later colour scheme nearer the end of its long, long life and no one has put it back to rights before giving her over to be a tourist attraction, or so I was told. Okay, I thought - I've made a mistake. I was annoyed because a) I liked the dark blue on the old ships far more than I liked it on the latter vessels of WWII and b) I'd have to re-do my whole fleet in a manner that c) I'd consider an aesthetic downgrade! That's a lot of effort and time to spent on making something "less cool". (Your mileage may vary).
So I found out what tone it should have been and was told that the U.S. used the classic white-and-buff livery of the pre-dread era up until roughly the end of the Great White Fleet cruise before transiting to a general light grey. I'm sure this grey has it's own specific hue, but seemed to my eye to be more or less standard fare. Disappointed, I got to work with stripping and repainting.
But THEN, on a modelling sight for those fare more experienced and skilful than I, there began to be a run of older U.S. vessels, old coal burners and pre-dreads, that were decked out in the exact same dark black/blue I'd used previously and that I'd seen on the preserved Texas. These were not vessels that became museum ships or even necessarily those that lasted into WWII. I contacted the best of these makers and was told that the colour scheme history was not so simple as frequently stated. He claimed to have researched extensively and though there was no way for me to be sure that he knew what he was talking about, his general level of knowledge and attention to detail was intimidatingly impressive. In this way I met/saw/read about other who were using the current Texaslivery on older ships when in dioramas drawn from their active historic ears.
Feeling happy that I may not need to replant my fleet I then searched for conformation in books and online … and in the majority of cases found myself being told the opposite opinion - that the dark scheme was not introduced so early and that the U.S. fleet went without exception from white-and-buff to light grey. No blue.
To add one other layer of confusion, while hunting for information (which, as I've mentioned, seems in actuality to be a bit hard to find, probably because of it's supposed obviousness to an American audience, or so I imagine) I found a photograph representing a third state: an absolutely stark white (no buff) USS Oklahoma passing in front of Alcatraz Island in "the 1930s". This was a one-off picture that looked as if it may have been colorised, though I'm not sure; it could just be unusual old-style photography. I quickly found this one picture in at least three other publications. It was always the only example, it's tones were always identical and it never came with any hint of an explanation as to the unusual livery. And when I say "all stark white" I really mean it - bright, unmarred white from stem to stern and waterline to observation tops.
All of this adds up to confusion on my part. I've sent emails and PMs and all that has confirmed is that though few tell exactly the same story, many believe that their story is correct. There are too many anomalies. Am I missing something super-obvious that's staring me right in the face? Does anyone here have an insight that not only explains the livery changes, but which also incorporates an understanding of the many discrepancies of opinion - in essence, an answer as to why so many knowledgable, detail orientated people have so many various takes? And mainly, I suppose … do I need to repaint my fleet to be accurate?!??!?!?
What a marathon. While I'm here, just quickly, does anyone else know:
What surface was used on the forecastle (only) of early R.N. TBDs? A good example would be GHQs "Ferret". Like the U.S. colour question, I have reams of information - a whole book of plans on early R.N. destroyers, in fact - that's insanely detailed, though bereft of actual answers! (For example, according to both Norman Freidman and builder's diagrams even the main decks could be one of a great many things, their surfaces being represented in various illustrations showing at least one example of each surface-type ever invented …
Also, does anyone have a good source on the colour schemes of cruiser and/or battleship launched scout planes? All nations are welcome, with a particular emphasis on R.N. and French.
One more question, this one specifically for Tanner - what's the Vallejo Air grey you use as a base coat for each nation?
Many more questions, but I better call it quits now. And thanks anyone and everyone for your patience.
Confused,
-U
And thanks for taking the time to make a thorough point-by point reply. As always, the time and effort are much appreciated.I admit that I'd been hoping for some kind of shortcut, some tricky advice to speed improvement. What you said sounds suspiciously like it could be summarised as, 'practice for another 10 years". While no doubt true, I find that answer no more satisfying that when it was given at various times in the past by my music teachers, physics tutors, sports coaches, art teachers, guidance councillors, parents and parole officers.
Now to another topic, a general one. I have a question to put out to the group and the immediate answer seems so painful obvious that I'm having trouble getting information on the subject at all - as if the topic was so well known that no one now bothers to talk about it. Or, more to the point, I can't get uniform answers. Many people and sources have told me a great many different things though there's always a difference in the details.
It concerns early U.S. naval paint schemes. When I started I painted all my old U.S. vessels (pre-dreads and such) in a dark blue. It looked great and gave the fleet its own distinct look, which I found pleasing. The reason I went with this colour is that I saw footage of the USS Texas as a museum ship and it was painted in a blue so dark it was almost black. I thought it looked very different and menacing and so was happy to start producing a fleet along those lines.
Once this fleet was progressing and I'd committed to a number of units I discovered that this blue was only applied much later, perhaps in WWII. Yes, it was an early vessel but it acquired a later colour scheme nearer the end of its long, long life and no one has put it back to rights before giving her over to be a tourist attraction, or so I was told. Okay, I thought - I've made a mistake. I was annoyed because a) I liked the dark blue on the old ships far more than I liked it on the latter vessels of WWII and b) I'd have to re-do my whole fleet in a manner that c) I'd consider an aesthetic downgrade! That's a lot of effort and time to spent on making something "less cool". (Your mileage may vary).
So I found out what tone it should have been and was told that the U.S. used the classic white-and-buff livery of the pre-dread era up until roughly the end of the Great White Fleet cruise before transiting to a general light grey. I'm sure this grey has it's own specific hue, but seemed to my eye to be more or less standard fare. Disappointed, I got to work with stripping and repainting.
But THEN, on a modelling sight for those fare more experienced and skilful than I, there began to be a run of older U.S. vessels, old coal burners and pre-dreads, that were decked out in the exact same dark black/blue I'd used previously and that I'd seen on the preserved Texas. These were not vessels that became museum ships or even necessarily those that lasted into WWII. I contacted the best of these makers and was told that the colour scheme history was not so simple as frequently stated. He claimed to have researched extensively and though there was no way for me to be sure that he knew what he was talking about, his general level of knowledge and attention to detail was intimidatingly impressive. In this way I met/saw/read about other who were using the current Texaslivery on older ships when in dioramas drawn from their active historic ears.
Feeling happy that I may not need to replant my fleet I then searched for conformation in books and online … and in the majority of cases found myself being told the opposite opinion - that the dark scheme was not introduced so early and that the U.S. fleet went without exception from white-and-buff to light grey. No blue.
To add one other layer of confusion, while hunting for information (which, as I've mentioned, seems in actuality to be a bit hard to find, probably because of it's supposed obviousness to an American audience, or so I imagine) I found a photograph representing a third state: an absolutely stark white (no buff) USS Oklahoma passing in front of Alcatraz Island in "the 1930s". This was a one-off picture that looked as if it may have been colorised, though I'm not sure; it could just be unusual old-style photography. I quickly found this one picture in at least three other publications. It was always the only example, it's tones were always identical and it never came with any hint of an explanation as to the unusual livery. And when I say "all stark white" I really mean it - bright, unmarred white from stem to stern and waterline to observation tops.
All of this adds up to confusion on my part. I've sent emails and PMs and all that has confirmed is that though few tell exactly the same story, many believe that their story is correct. There are too many anomalies. Am I missing something super-obvious that's staring me right in the face? Does anyone here have an insight that not only explains the livery changes, but which also incorporates an understanding of the many discrepancies of opinion - in essence, an answer as to why so many knowledgable, detail orientated people have so many various takes? And mainly, I suppose … do I need to repaint my fleet to be accurate?!??!?!?
What a marathon. While I'm here, just quickly, does anyone else know:
What surface was used on the forecastle (only) of early R.N. TBDs? A good example would be GHQs "Ferret". Like the U.S. colour question, I have reams of information - a whole book of plans on early R.N. destroyers, in fact - that's insanely detailed, though bereft of actual answers! (For example, according to both Norman Freidman and builder's diagrams even the main decks could be one of a great many things, their surfaces being represented in various illustrations showing at least one example of each surface-type ever invented …
Also, does anyone have a good source on the colour schemes of cruiser and/or battleship launched scout planes? All nations are welcome, with a particular emphasis on R.N. and French.
One more question, this one specifically for Tanner - what's the Vallejo Air grey you use as a base coat for each nation?
Many more questions, but I better call it quits now. And thanks anyone and everyone for your patience.
Confused,
-U
On balance, Jellicoe was probably right.
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battlewagon
- E5
- Posts: 231
- Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 10:57 am
- Location: San Diego, CA
Regarding the U.S. paint schemes: The pre-war light gray paint scheme can really appear washed out in photographs taken in bright daylight and that would explain the one you saw as a "white" Oklahoma. With regards to the blue USS Texas, she is currently painted out in the late-WWII Measure 22 scheme, vertical surfaces in navy blue and horizontal surfaces in deck blue. (It is a great ship to visit by the way)
I have a huge reference library on ships and their paint schemes and I have also found a lot of good (...translation: free!) references online. You should probably track down some of these references and then you can determine what time frame you want to represent on the ship...the configuration of the kit may dictate that (....late war ships, lots more AA mounts, masts cut down / removed, etc.) ...or... you could pick a camouflage pattern you like and go hog wild!
Here is a quick and relatively inexpensive option to get you going:
United States Navy Camouflage 1 of the WW2 Era - part1
United States Navy Camouflage 2 of the WW2 Era - Fleet Carriers
These pamphlets are available from The Floating Drydock at a little over $10 each last time I looked. If you have more specific questions about individual ships / actions / periods just post them up on the forum. There are more than a few of us on the forum that can point you in the right direction. I hope this helps.
I have a huge reference library on ships and their paint schemes and I have also found a lot of good (...translation: free!) references online. You should probably track down some of these references and then you can determine what time frame you want to represent on the ship...the configuration of the kit may dictate that (....late war ships, lots more AA mounts, masts cut down / removed, etc.) ...or... you could pick a camouflage pattern you like and go hog wild!
Here is a quick and relatively inexpensive option to get you going:
United States Navy Camouflage 1 of the WW2 Era - part1
United States Navy Camouflage 2 of the WW2 Era - Fleet Carriers
These pamphlets are available from The Floating Drydock at a little over $10 each last time I looked. If you have more specific questions about individual ships / actions / periods just post them up on the forum. There are more than a few of us on the forum that can point you in the right direction. I hope this helps.
Always respect the law of gross tonnage (aka "bigger boat wins")
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Mikee
- E5
- Posts: 145
- Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 3:32 am
- Location: Oakland, CA
Unfathomable;
Have you contacted Snyder & Short about camouflage information? Randy Short has been researching cqmouflage for years, & loves to talk about it. Among other things, he has a series of paint chips of colors used by several national fleets (sorry; no French) in WWII. He used to sell WEM enamel paints, which were based on his color chips, but new rules make shipping paints from the U.K. (where they're made) to the U.S has become too hard.
For R.N. patterns, you probably know about the four Alan Raven books showing RN camouflage patterns used in WWII. If you don't have them, contact Snyder & Short; they sell books may still have Alan Raven's four books.
The French didn't do much in the way of camo patterns. Bearn had a great "zebra" pattern at one time, and Richeliey had a really nice sprayed on pattern iafter she joined the Allies. At the moment I can only remember one light cruiser pattern. As to colors, Randy may be able to suggest something. I'm using some 'modern French navy" colors. Randy recently sent me some information that the French didn't have wood decks, and used either a very dark grey and/or bordeau red on horizontal surfaces. (I've got to repaint my decks when i get around to buying some Bordeaux red paint.)
Incidentally, Texas' dark blue color was 5-N navy Blue. It's decks were 20-B deck blue.I think it had a 12-m pattern early in WWII, but I may be confusing her with her sister ship.
I don't have Snyder & Short's website at hand, but google "Snyder & Short," and "The Ship Camouflage website." If you can't nail the site down with those, email me & I'll look it up for you.
Mike Church
Oakland, CA
Have you contacted Snyder & Short about camouflage information? Randy Short has been researching cqmouflage for years, & loves to talk about it. Among other things, he has a series of paint chips of colors used by several national fleets (sorry; no French) in WWII. He used to sell WEM enamel paints, which were based on his color chips, but new rules make shipping paints from the U.K. (where they're made) to the U.S has become too hard.
For R.N. patterns, you probably know about the four Alan Raven books showing RN camouflage patterns used in WWII. If you don't have them, contact Snyder & Short; they sell books may still have Alan Raven's four books.
The French didn't do much in the way of camo patterns. Bearn had a great "zebra" pattern at one time, and Richeliey had a really nice sprayed on pattern iafter she joined the Allies. At the moment I can only remember one light cruiser pattern. As to colors, Randy may be able to suggest something. I'm using some 'modern French navy" colors. Randy recently sent me some information that the French didn't have wood decks, and used either a very dark grey and/or bordeau red on horizontal surfaces. (I've got to repaint my decks when i get around to buying some Bordeaux red paint.)
Incidentally, Texas' dark blue color was 5-N navy Blue. It's decks were 20-B deck blue.I think it had a 12-m pattern early in WWII, but I may be confusing her with her sister ship.
I don't have Snyder & Short's website at hand, but google "Snyder & Short," and "The Ship Camouflage website." If you can't nail the site down with those, email me & I'll look it up for you.
Mike Church
Oakland, CA
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TAMMY
- E5
- Posts: 865
- Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:09 am
- Location: MILANO, ITALY
OK for WWII but where can I find information on paint scheme before that period.
I would divide tham in hree period before WWI, WWI and between the WW.
You can find a lot of pics of dazzling paint in WWI but they are usually black & white, with few details on the relevant colours.
Some of the colour scheme are astonishing like the USS Nebraska in 1918
I would divide tham in hree period before WWI, WWI and between the WW.
You can find a lot of pics of dazzling paint in WWI but they are usually black & white, with few details on the relevant colours.
Some of the colour scheme are astonishing like the USS Nebraska in 1918
Ubicumque et semper
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Mikee
- E5
- Posts: 145
- Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 3:32 am
- Location: Oakland, CA
I've never been able to find much on WWI paint colors. Yhe U.S. Navy supposedly used a paint called "Battleship Grey". WEM has a paint with this name; it's a very dark gray. The Royal Navy also used a 'dark' gray; Randy Short thought it might be similar to 507B used in WWII. The Germans used a two tone pattern like they did on many ships in WWII. I use the WWII colors on WWI ships. That is as close as I've been able to get. Randy Short hasn't anything better.
I know that those WWI camo patterns were pretty wild, but I've never seen much on colors. What little I have seen probably includes a lot of guesswork and artistic license
Prior to WWII the U.S. used a dark grey paint called, I think, 5-D, but I don't know when they started using that. WEM has a 5-D, but I don't know where you can get their paints any more. When I heard about the shipping problems I set aside some tins of the different paints, but I'm running through them quick.
I don't imagine any of this is much help to you, Tammy, but thought I'd send in just in case.
I know that those WWI camo patterns were pretty wild, but I've never seen much on colors. What little I have seen probably includes a lot of guesswork and artistic license
Prior to WWII the U.S. used a dark grey paint called, I think, 5-D, but I don't know when they started using that. WEM has a 5-D, but I don't know where you can get their paints any more. When I heard about the shipping problems I set aside some tins of the different paints, but I'm running through them quick.
I don't imagine any of this is much help to you, Tammy, but thought I'd send in just in case.
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dragon6
- E5
- Posts: 309
- Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 12:40 pm
- Location: Oklahoma
Testors make some nice acrylic naval paintsMikee wrote:I've never been able to find much on WWI paint colors. Yhe U.S. Navy supposedly used a paint called "Battleship Grey". WEM has a paint with this name; it's a very dark gray. The Royal Navy also used a 'dark' gray; Randy Short thought it might be similar to 507B used in WWII. The Germans used a two tone pattern like they did on many ships in WWII. I use the WWII colors on WWI ships. That is as close as I've been able to get. Randy Short hasn't anything better.
I know that those WWI camo patterns were pretty wild, but I've never seen much on colors. What little I have seen probably includes a lot of guesswork and artistic license
Prior to WWII the U.S. used a dark grey paint called, I think, 5-D, but I don't know when they started using that. WEM has a 5-D, but I don't know where you can get their paints any more. When I heard about the shipping problems I set aside some tins of the different paints, but I'm running through them quick.
I don't imagine any of this is much help to you, Tammy, but thought I'd send in just in case.
http://www.testors.com/~/media/DigitalE ... aints.ashx
If you move down to page 2 of this pdf over on the right hand side you will see Naval. That has most of the USN colours, three of the RN greys... I didn't know they made 507B have to get some, three of the Japanese Greys, only missing Yokosuka grey which they used to make. Lots of German naval colours and I have read that WW1 German naval colours are the same as the WW2. Don't know if that is true but it seems to be the way the modelers swing. Of course GHQ make some very nice USN colours but WW1 ... I don't know.
Mal Wright has a new book on RN camouflage http://www.pen-and-sword.co.uk/British- ... ack/p/6818 this book is British destoryers and escorts. There will be more covering the rest of the RN but this is WW2.
http://theminiaturespage.com/profiles/261926/ is another Mal Wright set of articles on WW1 paint schemes
Ray
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TAMMY
- E5
- Posts: 865
- Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:09 am
- Location: MILANO, ITALY
Mikee
for what I know up to WWII the US ships were painted standard gray (a) with the horizontal metallic deck in standard gray (c).
The gray (a) was a very light gray, so light to seem white in strong lifgt. It was lighter than the later 5-L (light gray). BTW 5-D was a classification used for the WWII painting schme and did no exist before 1941.
The definitio of "gray" is difficult on B&W pics because it varies with the light conditios. Moreover Moreover different navues have different name for very similar colors. For example the R.N. light admiralty gray is more near the US Hase gray (5-H) than light gray
(5-L).
for what I know up to WWII the US ships were painted standard gray (a) with the horizontal metallic deck in standard gray (c).
The gray (a) was a very light gray, so light to seem white in strong lifgt. It was lighter than the later 5-L (light gray). BTW 5-D was a classification used for the WWII painting schme and did no exist before 1941.
The definitio of "gray" is difficult on B&W pics because it varies with the light conditios. Moreover Moreover different navues have different name for very similar colors. For example the R.N. light admiralty gray is more near the US Hase gray (5-H) than light gray
(5-L).
Ubicumque et semper
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TAMMY
- E5
- Posts: 865
- Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:09 am
- Location: MILANO, ITALY
On this site hareis a good description of the change in colors from pre-war paints
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_ ... tates_Navy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_ ... tates_Navy
Ubicumque et semper
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Unfathomable
- Posts: 71
- Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:17 pm
- Location: Beyond the Horizon
Many thanks to Battlewagon and Mikee and everyone who replied with information on the colour scheme issue.
Not sure if I'm at the bottom of it yet and would like to return to the topic - I'd meant to do so before now, but things are just so busy - soon, but for the moment I have a question on something that's recently cropped up and needs a solution.
Right now I'm doing the R.N. Exeter cruiser, which came with a tripod mast in the pack. This mast is stepped like one half is supposed to lodge against a platform, with the other half connecting to the deck at a considerably lower level.
So I painted it up with the rest of the model like normal.
Then near the build's end (I do aircraft and masting last) I realised that there were no holes to take the tripod mast and nowhere for its dual step to fit. The height was good but the splay was too wide. So I checked my references again and sure enough, Exeter should be endowed with two masts, fore and main, with fore being the more significant. But masted for sure.
I then tried to get the mast into the forward position (abaft the bridge SS and forward of the fore funnel), but besides the obvious fact that there was no pre-made mating hole the supplied mast, being stepped, was the wrong shape.
While considering if I should simply drill my own hole (the model didn't come in perfect shape and has off quirks all over it), I checked the built photograph on the GHQ site and - lo and behold, no mast whatsoever.
But this vessel needs at least one - and one came in the blister pack!
Anyone know what's going on here with the mystery of the "Exeter's Missing Mast"?
Not sure if I'm at the bottom of it yet and would like to return to the topic - I'd meant to do so before now, but things are just so busy - soon, but for the moment I have a question on something that's recently cropped up and needs a solution.
Right now I'm doing the R.N. Exeter cruiser, which came with a tripod mast in the pack. This mast is stepped like one half is supposed to lodge against a platform, with the other half connecting to the deck at a considerably lower level.
So I painted it up with the rest of the model like normal.
Then near the build's end (I do aircraft and masting last) I realised that there were no holes to take the tripod mast and nowhere for its dual step to fit. The height was good but the splay was too wide. So I checked my references again and sure enough, Exeter should be endowed with two masts, fore and main, with fore being the more significant. But masted for sure.
I then tried to get the mast into the forward position (abaft the bridge SS and forward of the fore funnel), but besides the obvious fact that there was no pre-made mating hole the supplied mast, being stepped, was the wrong shape.
While considering if I should simply drill my own hole (the model didn't come in perfect shape and has off quirks all over it), I checked the built photograph on the GHQ site and - lo and behold, no mast whatsoever.
But this vessel needs at least one - and one came in the blister pack!
Anyone know what's going on here with the mystery of the "Exeter's Missing Mast"?
On balance, Jellicoe was probably right.
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piersyf
- E5
- Posts: 625
- Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:59 pm
- Location: Melbourne Australia
For some time now I've been looking for a way to base my Micronauts so they look decent and have a name on them for ID purposes that doesn't detract from the overall look. I've finally come up with a method that works for me, and given the trouble I had finding ideas for this, I decided to share. If it helps someone, great. If not, at least there's some new pics!
So, this is what I am going with...
I started by measuring the hulls of the ships and determining a base size for each. I then used a graphics program to create a base. These are printed on glossy photo paper to keep the brightness of the blue. The text is reversed out so as to avoid a big white bit on the base. Choose the text to be clearly readable when reversed out!
Cut out and glue the paper base to whatever base material you prefer. I used sheet styrene. Paint the edges of the base, then spray the base with a clear gloss. You'll see why in a second!
Take a sheet of plain paper and trace the outline of the hull of your ship. Take a strip of masking tape and put it on your cutting surface. Place the traced hull over the masking tape, cut through both. There are a million ways to do this, but I found it to be the easiest with much less risk of the model slipping if it is placed directly on the masking tape. Place the mask exactly where you want the ship to go on your base. This is why you spray the bases... if you don't, the masking tape will grab hold of the the toner on the base and peel it up. Spraying first seals it and lets you re-position the mask if you need to. Cut a second strip of tape to cover the name. The little 'tag' on the back of the hull mask is to help peel the mask up. Optional, but I find it useful. You might also notice that I have cut INSIDE the traced line... the pencil line will not be exactly the dimensions of your hull as it must be offset by some percentage of the thickness of the lead.
Next step is to texture the base. I use Vallejo Water Effects, but any acrylic gel medium will do the same. I just like the ease and consistency of a purchased product in this case. When you have arranged your waves to your satisfaction, take a piece of card, or plastic (I use a mixer from an old epoxy resin kit) to scrape the gel medium to the edge of the base mask. This will build up the 'waves' along the edge of the mask, helping to create a bow wave and boundary layer along the side of your model. When done, peel off the mask. Don't let the gel medium dry first!
Let it dry. When done, take any artists acrylic (nice and thick) and add the whites. If you like, you can mix a tiny bit of white into a clear gel medium and make the weaker foam, and use straight white for the primary bow wave, any wake and the boundary layer. Let dry. I find that the white acrylic will dry flat, so when all is done I go over the whole thing with clear gel medium like another layer of waves. I use the Vallejo Water Effects clear because it dried crystal clear. I even paint over the name and into the cavity where the ship will sit, because it acts just fine as a glue (it is close to a PVA in strength). The advantage for me of painting over the name is that from a certain angle you only see the glossy surface of the 'water', no flat section where the name is. It's a conceit, but part of the idea of making the name as clear but unobtrusive as possible.
Obviously, if you are using the clear as a glue, you need to position your ship before it dries!
In the image above, HMS Illustrious is the most recent completed basing. I'm getting better at representing the bow wave and wake. The variations in the blue are the Vallejo product... it is only a single colour but is translucent. Painted over a blue base is what gives these effects.
Hope this was helpful to someone, otherwise, enjoy the pic at the top (the rest are a bit boring).
Oh, one final thing... if you decide to experiment with this method, I'd suggest not using the clear gel as a glue. Instead, leave the masked area for the model as clean and clear as you can. That way, the base is quite separate from the model right until the end. You can then sit the model on the base, decide if you like it, then glue it down. If something went wrong, your nice model is nowhere near the base... just toss it and try again!
So, this is what I am going with...
I started by measuring the hulls of the ships and determining a base size for each. I then used a graphics program to create a base. These are printed on glossy photo paper to keep the brightness of the blue. The text is reversed out so as to avoid a big white bit on the base. Choose the text to be clearly readable when reversed out!
Cut out and glue the paper base to whatever base material you prefer. I used sheet styrene. Paint the edges of the base, then spray the base with a clear gloss. You'll see why in a second!
Take a sheet of plain paper and trace the outline of the hull of your ship. Take a strip of masking tape and put it on your cutting surface. Place the traced hull over the masking tape, cut through both. There are a million ways to do this, but I found it to be the easiest with much less risk of the model slipping if it is placed directly on the masking tape. Place the mask exactly where you want the ship to go on your base. This is why you spray the bases... if you don't, the masking tape will grab hold of the the toner on the base and peel it up. Spraying first seals it and lets you re-position the mask if you need to. Cut a second strip of tape to cover the name. The little 'tag' on the back of the hull mask is to help peel the mask up. Optional, but I find it useful. You might also notice that I have cut INSIDE the traced line... the pencil line will not be exactly the dimensions of your hull as it must be offset by some percentage of the thickness of the lead.
Next step is to texture the base. I use Vallejo Water Effects, but any acrylic gel medium will do the same. I just like the ease and consistency of a purchased product in this case. When you have arranged your waves to your satisfaction, take a piece of card, or plastic (I use a mixer from an old epoxy resin kit) to scrape the gel medium to the edge of the base mask. This will build up the 'waves' along the edge of the mask, helping to create a bow wave and boundary layer along the side of your model. When done, peel off the mask. Don't let the gel medium dry first!
Let it dry. When done, take any artists acrylic (nice and thick) and add the whites. If you like, you can mix a tiny bit of white into a clear gel medium and make the weaker foam, and use straight white for the primary bow wave, any wake and the boundary layer. Let dry. I find that the white acrylic will dry flat, so when all is done I go over the whole thing with clear gel medium like another layer of waves. I use the Vallejo Water Effects clear because it dried crystal clear. I even paint over the name and into the cavity where the ship will sit, because it acts just fine as a glue (it is close to a PVA in strength). The advantage for me of painting over the name is that from a certain angle you only see the glossy surface of the 'water', no flat section where the name is. It's a conceit, but part of the idea of making the name as clear but unobtrusive as possible.
Obviously, if you are using the clear as a glue, you need to position your ship before it dries!
In the image above, HMS Illustrious is the most recent completed basing. I'm getting better at representing the bow wave and wake. The variations in the blue are the Vallejo product... it is only a single colour but is translucent. Painted over a blue base is what gives these effects.
Hope this was helpful to someone, otherwise, enjoy the pic at the top (the rest are a bit boring).
Oh, one final thing... if you decide to experiment with this method, I'd suggest not using the clear gel as a glue. Instead, leave the masked area for the model as clean and clear as you can. That way, the base is quite separate from the model right until the end. You can then sit the model on the base, decide if you like it, then glue it down. If something went wrong, your nice model is nowhere near the base... just toss it and try again!
There is no right or wrong, only decisions and consequences.
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tstockton
- E5
- Posts: 715
- Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 10:55 pm
- Location: Indiana
- Contact:
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piersyf
- E5
- Posts: 625
- Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:59 pm
- Location: Melbourne Australia
A question for all (but probably suit Donald or IRISH); I have a pair of the T2 tankers from CinC. While I can use them as US flagged merchants, I was investigating the possibility of having them British flagged. T2's don't appear to have been used by the UK during the war (although many were purchased after the war).
My investigations showed a remarkable similarity of shape for almost all tankers at the time, and wondered about your thoughts of using the models as Harland and Wolff tankers like Neritina or Adula. The Harland's are a touch shorter making the model about 1.5mm over-long, but the shape looks OK. Neritina also had a weapons fit in almost identical places to the CinC T2...
Thoughts? Am I missing something really obvious?
My investigations showed a remarkable similarity of shape for almost all tankers at the time, and wondered about your thoughts of using the models as Harland and Wolff tankers like Neritina or Adula. The Harland's are a touch shorter making the model about 1.5mm over-long, but the shape looks OK. Neritina also had a weapons fit in almost identical places to the CinC T2...
Thoughts? Am I missing something really obvious?
There is no right or wrong, only decisions and consequences.