Bundeswehr Thread

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chrisswim
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Post by chrisswim »

Updates: Germany is upgrading some Leopard 2 that have been in storage to the Leopard 2A6 standard. Is there anything else you are aware of?

Article on the build up: http://www.defensenews.com/articles/ger ... cquisition


Tanks on the firing range: https://www.facebook.com/GrafSupportTea ... 555408533/
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Post by dougeagle »

Was that a T-64 firing with the Leopard 2 tanks? Pretty cool 8) 8) 8) 8)
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chrisswim
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Post by chrisswim »

In a video of tanks on the tank range, Ukraine brought T-64 BV, as I recall. The Austrians won the competition with Leopard 2A4, Then German Leopard 2A6, then the American in M1A2 SEP 2. Although, as I understand it, the competition did not include night firing where the Leopard 2A6 and M1A2 SEP 2 would have had a significant advantage with improved night sighting/targeting equipment.
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Post by chrisswim »

Germany is buying tanks back from their manufacturers that they had sold to down size. As I understand, readiness is significantly reduced.
Any info to support this or contradict, is appreciated.
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Post by STS »

chrisswim wrote:Germany is buying tanks back from their manufacturers that they had sold to down size. As I understand, readiness is significantly reduced.
Any info to support this or contradict, is appreciated.
According to various German newspapers, news stations and Rheinmetall, they're raising Leo II numbers from 244 to 328.

The 104 additional tanks are 68 Leopard 2A4 (ex-Swedish), 16 Leopard 2A6 (ex-Dutch), all of which were originally bought back by KMW and were slated for export, and 20 Leopard 2A7, which were formerly used by the Bundeswehr for training and simulation. All 104 are going to be brought up to 2A7V-spec, deliveries are planned to happen between 2019-2023.

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Post by StarCruiser »

Yep - according to the Russians, they will be upgraded to these specs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztkKJUQB4rU
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panzergator
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Post by panzergator »

Which, if your figures are correct, gives the German army the tank strength of ONE 1970s/80s armored division. The Germans, like many others, assumed the Russians changed their national interest along with what they call their government. Don't be smug. The U.S. made that assumption, too. Governments change. National interests do not.
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Post by chrisswim »

The new GHQ M.A.N. trucks are great to have. Germany and Australia utilize these trucks.
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Post by chrisswim »

MAN Patriot SAM Launcher

Image

Fuchs

Image

Paul, AV-8 made a few of these.

Image
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Re: Bundeswehr Thread

Post by redleg »

I see that the Marder is on special now and I'm suddenly wondering if I need a company of them. Does anyone know how many Marders made up a company? I'm digging through the old posts on this thread and I'm searching the internet but nothing definitive yet. I see some references that say 44 Marders in a panzer grenadier battalion, so is that companies of 14 Marders?
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Re: Bundeswehr Thread

Post by Hoth_902 »

Under advice of someone, I recently purchased colours of war. It's a book produced by Vallejo and battlefront. Yes, flames of war/team Yankee. According to that book, not sure how accurate, a tank company is 14 tanks. Two head quarters and 4 platoons of three. The picture in the book shows 3 platoons of 3 tanks with one marder platoon of 3 crossed attached. They seem to indicate that both the infantry and the armor formations are set up the same. But I might be reading into that a little. Anyway, I just sent you a picture of the book page. Check your email.
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Re: Bundeswehr Thread

Post by Hoth_902 »

O, and since your on the subject, 8 think you might need at least a company of armor.....and wait, probably a second company of marders.....you know just in case you want to cross attach platoons. 😜
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Re: Bundeswehr Thread

Post by panzergator »

It's hard to keep up with TOE these days. Folks are changing all the time. 13 tanks per German tank company. 13 Marders per German mech. Usually organized 4 tanks per platoon, 3 marders per platoon. Two tank and 1 mech or vice versa per battalion. But my info is dated. Probably available on line somewhere. Just search "modern German tank company" or something similar. Look at the "images" for pics, but make sure it isn't from WWII, because you'll get all sorts of images.

As I've noted before, I don't usually follow TOEs after the '80s, and am inclined now to make up my own.

As I pointed out above, German tank strength is only one US division's worth, although that may change, given Russia having recovered enough to make trouble.

I am slowly gathering a German mech brigade - 1 Puma battalion, 1 Marder battalion, 1 armor battalion, mortar company in each, and an arty battalion of 3 batteries, 6 pieces each.
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Re: Bundeswehr Thread

Post by panzergator »

Be VERY SKEPTICAL of using organizatio information provided by games. They are often just plain wrong. Was talking to Mike Roble about a game he just bought about Fulda Gap covering force battle. It has caalry units as mech and tank units and vice versa, having nothing to do with easily available real world.
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STS
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Re: Bundeswehr Thread

Post by STS »

redleg wrote:
Sat Jul 09, 2022 6:35 am
I see that the Marder is on special now and I'm suddenly wondering if I need a company of them. Does anyone know how many Marders made up a company? I'm digging through the old posts on this thread and I'm searching the internet but nothing definitive yet. I see some references that say 44 Marders in a panzer grenadier battalion, so is that companies of 14 Marders?
It changes depending on which timeframe you're looking at, as composition changed with every "Heeresstrukturreform". The picture below seems to be right and in line with other publications I own.

Image

now as far as Panzergrenadierbattalions are concerned it gets a bit more complicated. Battalions in Panzerbrigades had 3 full companies (2nd 3rd 4th company) equipped with Marder, those in Panzergrenadierbrigades had 2 companies with Marder, 1 company with M113. 1st Company was the Führungskompanie (command), 5th Company was usually a Panzermörserkompanie equipped with M106. Within "Heeresstruktur 5", Battalions recieved an adidtional company of Marders as well as Jaguars.

As of "Heeresstruktur 5", up until "Heer 2010" there was also a difference between Panzergrenadierbattalions used for defense (HVK: Hauptverteidigungskräfte) and those for crisis intervention/expeditionary use (KRK: Krisenreaktionskräfte). The latter dropped 1-2 companies and their Jaguars. After "Heer 2010" the heavy companies were dissolved.

So the numbers should be (please correct me if I made a mistake somewhere):

Heeresstruktur 3:
1. Kompanie (Stabs- und Versorgungskompanie) (2 Marder)
2. Kompanie (Kampfkompanie) (16 Marder)
3. Kompanie (Kampfkompanie) (16 Marder)
4. Kompanie (Kampfkompanie) (16 Marder (PzBrig) OR M113 (PzGrenBrig)
5. Kompanie (Panzermörser) (6 M106)

Heeresstruktur 4:
1. Kompanie (Stabs- und Versorgungskompanie) (2 Marder)
2. Kompanie (Kampfkompanie) (11 Marder)
3. Kompanie (Kampfkompanie) (11 Marder)
4. Kompanie (Kampfkompanie) (11 Marder (PzBrig) OR M113 (PzGrenBrig)
5. Kompanie (Panzermörser) (6 M106)

Heeresstruktur 5(N):
1. Kompanie (Stabs- und Versorgungskompanie) (1 Marder)
2. Kompanie (Kampfkompanie) (13 Marder)
3. Kompanie (Kampfkompanie) (13 Marder)
4. Kompanie (Kampfkompanie) (13 Marder) (HVK only)
5. Kompanie (Kampfkompanie) (13 Marder) (HVK only)
6. Kompanie (Panzermörser + Panzerjäger) (3 Marder, 10 M106, 5 Jaguar) (Jaguar= HVK only)

Heeresstruktur "Neues Heer":
1. Kompanie (Stabs- und Versorgungskompanie) (1 Marder)
2. Kompanie (Kampfkompanie) (13 Marder)
3. Kompanie (Kampfkompanie) (13 Marder)
4. Kompanie (Kampfkompanie) (13 Marder) (HVK only)
5. Kompanie (Panzermörser + Panzerjäger) (8 M106, 5 Jaguar) (Jaguar= HVK only)

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