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Opinions please...

Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:06 am
by helgish
I am trying a new painting style and I am seeking opinions, comments and criticisms from the community. I am alittle unhappy with how they came out; I tired baking on the base coat so if it chips or scratches the affect doesn't get ruined. Nonetheless I think I failed becuase they color doesn't look right. :( Anyway I didn't want to reapply the base coat for fear of hiding the excellent little details that GHQ strives to add so I am left with thus...This is the beginnings of a British Armored Regiment for deployment into South Africa and the Frontline States; the beginnings of a scenario I am trying to hammer out. I thank you in advance for your comments, opinions and criticism. Oh yes, I drybrused an dirt/mud combo to give them a hard used look and a little black wash for details. Thanks.


Okay I can't seem to post pictures. Can you please help? I will gladly email pictures for now until I can figure out how to post them. Thanks.[/img]

Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:26 am
by Hugewally
To post photos, you need to upload them to a photo website on the internet. Then you can link to them for display here by inserting the web page address using the img button.

Oh thanks.

Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:40 pm
by helgish
Okay, thanks! I will get on that now. :D

Here they are...

Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 2:00 am
by helgish
Here are the pictures. Please tell me what you think.

[imghttp://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/helgish/Pewter/dsc00805.jpg[/img]
[imghttp://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/helgish/Pewter/dsc00806.jpg[/img]
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[imghttp://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/helgish/Pewter/dsc00810.jpg[/img]
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Reposted the pictures at a much smaller resolution.

Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 2:43 am
by Ritter
Nice army!

BIG army!

Re-sizing the images to 800x600 would be my first critique!

Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 4:08 am
by Hugewally
Ritter wrote:
Re-sizing the images to 800x600 would be my first critique!
Ditto... Make the pics smaller please.

Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 11:49 am
by Mk 1
Gotta agree. If you would resize the pics, it would help us all see 'em better. I think 640
pixels wide is even better than 800 for viewing on this forum.

That said, here are a few observations on the models.

First off, I think they look pretty good. I don't know how much experience you have
painting minis in general, nor micro-armor in particular, but you are definitely in the
"more advanced painters" category in my book.

I like the detail. Detail adds a lot, even at this scale. Tail lights -- yeah! Red cross
decals? Excellent. Roadwheels painted too? Great. Muzzles blacked? Good show.

It is hard for me to judge the overall color. Pics are not reliable in reproducing color ... I
don't know if that's how your models look in that particular lighting, or if the camera, or
my monitor, changes what your eye on the spot actually sees.

But it does look a bit splotchy to me. That's not necessarily bad. Maybe what you are
looking for. But it is not a common effect. In particular, the splotches seem to be darker
(more brown) than the base color. In my own painting I often go heavy-handed on the
dark washes, but that seldom leaves a splotch on open flat surfaces. I also often go
heavy-handed with the dry-brush, which sometimes DOES leave splotches on more
open surfaces, but those splotches are lighter, not darker, than the base tone. Just an
observation.

Also, the more important issues to my eye ... the paint looks to be on rather thicker than
needs be, and there is a noticeable gloss on several models. It may be that the thickness
I see is related to the gloss -- maybe a very thick overcoat material (like floor wax?) is
being used? The thickness seems to highlight some of the painting anomolies (like the
blotches), and also seems to obscure some of the model details.

I know some painting approaches put gloss overcoats on for some intentional effect. I'm
not a fan of gloss on a military model, no matter the scale. If you like it, that's fine. But I
much prefer very flat military miniatures (except for glass or other reflective surfaces).
Still, do as you like, no need to change to please me.

If I may be so bold as to make some suggestions, I have two areas of detailing you may
want to consider.

First is painting some of the tools. You are already getting the tail lights, and the missile
warheads, etc. So why not try the picks and shovels, too. Particularly on the six-wheel
APCs, there are a couple tools pictured on the hull sides that are just crying to be hit
with some dark brown and gun-metal silver/gray.

Second is putting some more variety into the soft-vehicles' canvas tops. I have recently
adopted a couple approaches to give some subtle variety to canvas surfaces,
particularly on truck covers. To my observation, canvas left in the weather changes
color at an infinitely variable rate, so no two canvas-covered items left outside will have
the same color for long. So I try to imitate that characteristic of canvas.

I've taken to under-coating the canvas surfaces of a group of vehicles with notably
different colors, and then also choosing two or three top-coat colors that are all rather
similar, yet not identical.

Here is an example with some Italian WW2 trucks I did several months ago ...

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Some of the canvas tops were undercoated white, some the same green-grey as the
bodies, and some olive green. Also, on some I undercoated the cab roof canvas a
different color than the body canvas. Then I used two different colors for the top
coats. One is Polly-S "Olive Green", the other is Polly-S "Khaki", which is a tan khaki.
Again, I painted some cabs differently from the body canvas. With that number of
variables, out of five trucks no two were painted the same.

Image
But with identical washes and dry-brushing, the colors converge to become only subtly
different. I rather like the character this gives. They look to me like they may have all
faded or gotten dirty at their own rates.

Just an idea. Use or ignore at your discretion.

Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 1:23 pm
by Hugewally
Canvas in general - in time, lighter on the top than the sides.

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 2:41 am
by helgish
Wow...thanks for the feedback. I respoted the pictures at a much smaller resolution. I really appreciate all the comments. I have already started to repaint some ot the vehicles external tools, I think it will help out a lot. Taking your advice, I will use a stronger black wash and a much thinner or diluted dry brushing. I was trying for a hard used look, remember what many of the vehicles looked like the marines were using out of Camp Pendleton when I was growing up. I remember them being "splotchy" after a hard training cycle. But memory is always spotty at abest. I think I will use a lighter base coat and then a much thinner main color, as many of you said the paint looks thick and glossy. Now have to figure out how to lighten the canvas tops of trucks to varying shades...I never thought of that. Does anyone reccommend a good dullcoat then? Apparently the one I use is not that dulling then. Thanks a lot everybody.

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 8:28 pm
by tstockton
helgish,

I'm a big fan of Testor's Dullcote, sprayed directly out of the small spray cans. The trick I've found is to just do "light dustings" and do two or three coats (allowing plenty of "drying time" between coats). If at all possible, I recommend doing this outdoors -- plenty of ventilation that way! -- and also, avoid doing this when there is a lot of humidity in the air. Somehow, Dullcote can "pick up", or maybe "trap" said humidity (moisture) in the finish, often giving a "cloudy" appearance.

Dullcote is a lacquer-based coating, and if applied too heavily, that lacquer can "attack" or "craze" the paints it's applied to -- especially acrylics. But with "light dustings", I've never had a problem with this, and I use acrylics for everything except my primer coat (usually Floquil light gray primer, also in a spray can -- and also sprayed outdoors).

I believe Dullcote is also available in "bottle" form, to be used for airbrushing. I've just never invested in the "trappings" for an airbrush (the airbrush itself, compressor with regulator fittings, water trap, etc., and then a paint booth) -- so what little I know about that comes from reading what others have done. One of these days, I will have to go "that route"... it's just hard to spend that much money all at once when I stop and think of how much more micro armor that amount would purchase!!

Hope this helps!

Regards,
Tom Stockton

Brit forces paint job.

Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 3:54 am
by chrisswim
I like the paint job. Think it looks really nice.

One idea, is have the missles face in different directions, angle forward, side, rear. I concur with the canvas suggestion and the dull coat.

You can add antenna and paint the vision slots, too.

Great job.

Thanks!

Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:31 pm
by helgish
I just wanted to say thanks to everyone for their opinions. It was really appreciated and your tips on weathering the canvas as well as paint choice were especially valuable. Again thanks a lot everyone.

Re: Thanks!

Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:10 pm
by Mk 1
helgish wrote:I just wanted to say thanks to everyone for their opinions. It was really appreciated and your tips on weathering the canvas as well as paint choice were especially valuable. Again thanks a lot everyone.
And thanks to you! We love pics of micros here. And even though it sometimes reads like criticism, in truth most of us just love to talk and yammer and hash over techniques and methods, and see some of the results, and talk and yammer some more.

So ... if you do try any of the ideas folks have suggested here, post some more! More more more. We love the pics.

:wink:

Re: Thanks!

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:43 am
by Hugewally
Mk 1 wrote: We love the pics.
"small" pics that is... :wink: :wink:

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:07 am
by helgish
Y'all got it. I got more British units coming along and have started on my German.

The scenario I am flushing out is based on three books, Vortex and Cauldron by Larry Bond and Semper Mars by Ian Douglas. The premise is that a economically collapsed South Africa has fallen into civil war. A newly supplied Frontline States Coalition, supported by the Chinese, N. Korea and funded by Iran/Syria has launched two columns in to SA inorder to secure the Gold mines and other strategic resources for themselves. At the same time, a country insurrection errupts supported by many of the impoverished minorities, even after decades of "equality". A outnumbered and outgunned SA government has begged the UN to intervene. Leading the UN led relief force is a joint Germn/French division, supported by other European countries. Reluctant to allow the EU to dominate the strategic minerals market, the US with support by the UK and an increassingly pressured Canada, launch their own attack. With their long history of weapons programs, a small Israeli brigade is dispatched through Namibia to the SA weapons complex at Pelindaba to secure any all evidence of an Isreali presence. I know it is complex and complicated, but this is just a very rough idea, something I need to flesh out. Ideas?