GHQ Models Forums

In another post i was asked what rules set i use. At the moment i am using Seekrieg (not sure what version, the free download one) and i dont have any complaints, im still getting used to it....but what other options are there? Is the new version of Seekrieg much improved from the free one? Someone in another post mentioned that Harpoon made a WWII rules set, but i did not find it on Clash of Arm's site. I did find the "modern" Harpoon set....
I dont wish to step on GHQs toes, but they havent released their WWII Naval Rules yet (when you guys do, believe me i am in line for that!)
There will be times when i want to be in depth....Destroyers escorting convoys, defending them from air or submarine (or surface) attack, etc. This type of scenario, with only a few ships involved, would lend itsself well to a detailed rules set.
At other times, some abstraction could be needed. I would not want to be the GM that had to keep track of every aircraft flying during Midway.
So if people could chime in about the rules they use and why they like them, and what the pros/cons are, i would appreciate it. Im looking for rules sets that are "in print" now please. Thanks!

Clash of Arms make Command at Sea, which is by the same people who do Harpoon. It is currently in version 3 but soon, Real Soon Now, version 4 will come out. I suggest you wait for it as it sounds as if it will be much better. It's available from CoA as a pre-order in the Atlantic Navies, Command at Sea Volume VII... or will be.

You are using Seekreig IV, if you are using the download. Seekrieg V is the current version. I'm told it is easier to use and more historical. I'm considering it as I like what the designers intended.

General Quarters III is a higher level game, you are cast more in the form of a task group commander. General Quarters I and II are still available I believe. I is WW2 and II is WW1 and optional rules for WW2. They are simpler than GQ III, which is simpler than SKV or CaS.

Mongoose has a very simple game out called Victory at Sea. Wizard's of the Coast has an extremely simple naval game in their Axis and Allies line called War at Sea. You can command fleets in both. War at Sea is a simple set that manages to include submarines and aircraft, both carrier and land based. Not very realistic but quick playing. Many of the local gamers who were playing it switched to Victory at Sea. I don't know much about that one.

I'm in the CaS or Seekrieg school. I prefer smaller games with detail.

You can try out my WWII naval rules. Probably a little more detailed than SK or CoA. They are free.
It doesn't do a lot with launching and recovery of aircraft but a contributer has posted mods for it on the PW forum.
It does do torpedo rules in a new, novel way. You do have to think ahead to use them rather than do a lot of math with angles and such.

Seas of War

My two cents worth. My group and me here in Northern Indiana play with Seekrieg 5 which by far is the best set of naval rules i have ever seen. Well written and not many loop holes or points to argue. It is well worth the money to buy and use this version of Seekrieg. It covers from 1880 to 1945. The only draw back is you also have to buy the Cd logs for each countries ships, but you name it they have the data for it ship wise, it also covers air combat, bombing, subsurface actions, campaigns the whole gambit. Its learning curve can seem overwhelming when you start looking at all the charts, but honestly once you have played thru the rules once or twice you pick up the concept quickly.

fullmetaljacket

I am going to try a test run or two with the rule set that mobius linked me to, and i will probably purchase SK 5 as soon as i find a distributor that has the rules and the ship data CDs. SK 4 is pretty detailed, a bit math intensive for my taste, but detailed enough for nit-picky small actions, like detroyer vs sub, or destroyer vs destroyer. Its NOT the sort of rules set that i would want to do large (more than a couple ships per side) with. Is SK 5 a faster rules set, or is it similar to SK 4? And is the reason it seems "slow" simply because im not so used to it yet?
Thanks!

SK4 is slower than SKV but 5 is faster than 4. Of course there is a learning curve and they are different games.

You can get SKV here http://www.seawarstore.com/Seekrieg5ProductsIndex.htm I don't know of any brick and mortar store that carries it, nor any distributor.

Mobius, i have to say at first glance i rather like the Sea War system, and do intent to try it out, but i do have one question. I did not find any data for aircraft carriers, though there are rules for launching and recovering aircraft from carriers as well as air to air and air to sea combat...did i just miss the carrier data, or is it still in development? In any event thanks very much for the site, i see there is a system for ground warfare too!

"CA-68 \did i just miss the carrier data, or is it still in development?

The carrier data should be mixed in with the regular data on ships. It is the last page of ship data before the gun data starts.
(unless I have a less than current version of the rules on the website.)

Start small with a with scenarios like River Plate or Denmark Strait, then go for a small air scenario like Bismarck vs swordfish. (The turn sequence gets a little more involved if you add aircraft and torpedoes than just gunnery.) The data sheets are all ready made up for these.

I've played the old Clear for Action rules. No longer in print I believe, but I thought it was a nice system.

My "two cents worth", if I may...

I'm a big fan of Alnavco's Seapower -- it seems to have the right balance of accuracy and playability to suit me. My gaming pals of long ago (sigh ) played and played with those rules. And as I recall, when we found rules that didn't suit us, we made "house modifications". Sure had a lot of fun with them!!

ALNAVCO is still around; the "basic" rules are $20, the add-on "advanced" rules are another $13.50. If I recall correctly, the "basic" (Seapower II) set mainly covered both the WW I and WW II eras, and you could "mix and match" eras, using the appropriate "time frame" for each ship -- for example, allowing a "pre-DREADNAUGHT" battleship to tackle a WW I-era battlecruiser, but with the older ship using the older firing table, while the more-modern battlecruiser, with more advanced fire control, firing off the appropriate firing table... while the Seapower III set added more detail in most areas of combat (especially to the torpedo rules) while adding quite a bit of detail to the aircraft rules.

I've looked at -- and own -- a lot of other rules sets... but I keep coming back to Seapower. When GHQ publishes their rules set, I'm sure I'll buy it as well -- maybe I'll like it better.

Anyway, my "two cents worth"... hope this helps!

Regards,
Tom Stockton

Finding the right naval rules does not seem to be an easy task. I was looking for one two years ago and it is very difficult to tell just from the descriptions of each, what it will actually be like. I wanted a system that will play well in a small engagement and also in a large fleet action. It also needed to have rules that cover air warfare, submarine warfare, convoys, combat against merchants, and have a good campaign system too (search rules, repair, replacement, deployment,...).

I finally settled on SKV, but probably made the wrong choice. SKV has something to meet all of my requirements except being able to do anything but very small battles. The rules are very detailed and it is that beautifully crafted detail that just slows the game down to a crawl. Very difficult to introduce new people to the system as it is so complex. I've gotten on their forum and it looks like people do large battles with it, but I just can't see how unless everyone playing was an expert at using SKV. I can tell you right now I will never get to the point where everyone playing will be an expert, so I'm looking for something that has just enough detail to cover all the situations above but still play fast so that I can do big battles.

I think it would be very handy to have a section in this forum where we have detailed run-downs of every rules system out there so that people can more easily find what they are really looking for. ...and of course, it doesn't help that many of the rules are out of print or hard to find. Don't know why so many companies in our hobby have not embraced the readily available technology to adequately present their products on a website with pictures and descriptions so you know what you are getting. Gaming/hobby stores are very rare now-a-days so going to a brick and mortar store to check out these products is many times just not possible.

I have vented.

Chris

Speaking as someone who has always been more interested in land battles I can say the General Quarters rules are good. They are dirt, well water, simple. If you are looking for Harpoon level gaming this not for you, but if you are looking for a quick and easy system this might work. Even the "Navy" guy iin my group really liked the GQI and II rules.

My vote is for Command at Sea which is coming out in version 4 now.

Paul

Panzerleader71 wrote:Speaking as someone who has always been more interested in land battles I can say the General Quarters rules are good. They are dirt, well water, simple. If you are looking for Harpoon level gaming this not for you, but if you are looking for a quick and easy system this might work. Even the "Navy" guy iin my group really liked the GQI and II rules.

I've always loved those rules for the type of Naval actions (WWII at least) that I do. This is several task force type units to a side using maps. Find em, fix em, and well... you know the rest!
GQs I & II work well for this scale of gaming. They are simple but don't think you don't need to think. I'm with you on this one PL71
Of course if you want to have smaller commands I can't help you there, yet.

Has anybody ever used General Quarters 3?