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I painted up my 10 Shermans and 10 Panzers, mounted them on a thick one-inch square base and inserted a wire in the corner to string tiny beads to keep track of things like movement, supression, firing, etc.

Any recommendations as to whqt I should get next to continue to build two interesting and competitive forces?

Well, there are a couple ways you can go with this, but my honest suggestion would be to look at infantry to start. That offers a nice and wide selection of additional options. Beyond that, you might want to look at self-propelled guns for both sides, or AT guns.

lead_and_brush wrote: Any recommendations as to whqt I should get next to continue to build two interesting and competitive forces?

Well, to make it "interesting", we should first get some sense of what interests you.

Since you already have the Panther vs. Sherman set, I will assume you are interested in 1944/45 in Western Europe. But there are many other interesting timeframes and theaters of battle to consider. Among my favorites are 1942/43 in Tunisia, and just about any time on the Eastern Front. But I too also like '44/45 Western Europe, US vs. Germans.

The suggestions about infantry are good. A company of infantry, a couple of anti-tank guns, and a battery of artillery (typically 4 or 6 guns) adds interest. If you are sticking with 44/45, I'd also suggest getting a few more tanks in various flavors. For the Germans, the Panther was one heck of a tank. Far more capable, 1 on 1, than a Sherman. So if you stick with 10 vs 10 you won't have a very balanced game. Add some Pz IVHs to get a little more balance. Also perhaps some StuGs or Marders. Then for the Americans add some tank destroyers. M18s are fun because they are so fast. M10s are OK, particularly if you go later in the war (into '45) and toss in a few M36s with your M10s.

By the '44/45 timeframe your US forces should outnumber the Germans on almost every occasion. So buy more Shermans too. You can never have too many Shermans. Get mostly M4A3 75mm Shermans, but some Sherman 76s as well to bolster your firepower. Some folks get all twisted into knots about balancing their scenarios ... I personally prefer to have the occasional unbalanced scenario, just to see how well the play who is at a disadvantage manages to do with his out-numbered force.

And then start thinking about what you are fighting over. Buildings, bridges and such.

You are hooked, my friend. Abandon all hope all ye who enter this hobby. All your money are belong to MICRO ARMOR!

(Added on Edit):

Just went to look at the catalog, and whadya know? The battle box you bought didn't HAVE Panthers, it had Pz IVH's. D'oh!

OK, change my suggestion. You already HAVE the P4s. So go get a few Panthers. One pack should do. You can easily waste 10 Shermans and 5 or 10 M18 or M10 tank destroyers trying to deal with 5 Panthers.

I like Luca's suggestion of the armored cars below (one of the oddities of editing a pre-existing poste, is that I can now respond to posts that readers haven't even seen yet... ). But I might suggest another approach. M8 armored cars, halftracks and infantry for the US (maybe some M5 Stuart light tanks too). Pak40 AT guns, and infantry, for the Germans. If you want to fight 1944/45 Western Europe, the Americans should have a significant advantage in mobility in most of your scenarios. So make the German infantry and guns foot-bound. Let the Americans try to outmaneuver a German force which has a good right arm with its Panzers, but a crippled left arm with its foot-bound infantry.

Oh, and yeah, after you've built up this match, then you start buying some Russians. Or some Brits. So much to buy and paint, so little time....

....You can never have too many Shermans. ....

Don't forget trucks. You can never have too many trucks.

Or halftracks.
Bill
http://www.freewebs.com/gupiao/

I Wuld buy halfracks, 10 for the US and 10 for the Germans, to make 1 battalion each. Then infantry, with Heavy Weapons Pack, for both the contenders. And finally some Armoured cars, fort the Usa the Greyhounds, and for the Germans some Pumas.
Whit this force I would start. It's strong, fast, and funny. It would cost in the whole $100 more or less, and it's worth the price, it is the "basic". Then you can add everything you need, like self propelled artillery, stugs, trucks (lots of them), artillery, and many more different panzers and tanks. And then after having build an enought streng german army, you can switch to the russian. Welcome to the hobby!

I bought almost exactly what you did on my first purchase!
and now, (almost 1,000 dollars later), i look back and say, HOW DID IT HAPPEN!?
What i suggest is to get some basic units first not all the speciality first. I bought some half tracks, a half track variant (the M15A1) and the M8 Greyhounds. I then bought some more shermans and some Pershings for late war Europe.

For the Germans however, i thought extremely big extremely quick. I looked at my force and realized that i bought a Kampfgruppe 1941! ( I know i know... late war US with early war german... i was 15 at the time!). So i decided to make up for it and buy some heavy german armor. I first bought Tiger II's, then Panthers. Infantry for both sides really made it interesting!!!! Dont forget some late war armor cars for the Germans like teh Puma or some 222's. Soon you will be lost in a torrent of what i like to call "W.I.A.M.M.G.T.P.M.A.N.I.N.A.S.M." Syndrome. What is this you say? It is incurable once you have it unfortunately, and everyone on this forum suffers from it. It is the infamous "Why Is All My Money Going To Pewter Models And Now I Need A Second Mortgage!"
Best of luck and welcome to the family!

If I were you I'd be busy finding a similarly motivated opponent (or better still a gaming group) BEFORE buying a bunch more micro armor.

To use even the forces that you own now, you'll have to invest in a set of wargame rules. Its much better to buy the same set as your local ganming group is currently using so that you can easily join in their contests rather than you trying to convince them to join in testing your unknown set. Worse stil if you have spent your $ on a set that they have already rejected.

I followed the path that you are now going down and was VERY disappointed later when I finally stumbled upon my local city gaming group. I had spent a lot of money buying and a lot of time painting models that were already duplicated (and triplicated) within the group's collections.

I (and the group as a whole) would have been much further ahead if I had used my $ and painting time to add the oddities instead of just more of the aready available common micro models. This approach allows more scenario types also.

Everybody buys tanks but not so many have infantry, command stands, aircraft, AA guns, engineers and AT guns all ready to fight.

A valuable contribution can be made by providing well researched model buildings to represent the towns/villages/bridges that your new group fights over. And that way you get invited to every game without having to sit one out because there are no Russians involved (if you only collect say, Russian models).

My US C-47s with paratroopers and German assault glider units see far more combat than the real units ever did. My model airstrip has been fought over more times than I can count and I'm surprised that a palm frond can still be found on my oasis diorama. Still need a good model of an invasion beach ...

And my AT mineclearing units always seem to save the day in Normandy. The enemy always has to worry about whether his defensive minefields will really secure his open flank, or not ?

Yes, if you build only one nation's forces there is a danger that your regular opponent could move away and take your usual opposition forces with him but, hopefully another opponent will be found soon, or, you'll have to spend the money that you would have spent anyway, just much later on.

robdab wrote:If I were you I'd be busy finding a similarly motivated opponent (or better still a gaming group) BEFORE buying a bunch more micro armor.

There are none where I live. I am the guy who brings in the new stuff and gets things going at the shop. So I'll collect a fun matched armies and play wit h my kids or find a historically minding person at the store. I've already put together some nice terrain out of the paper buidlings you can find online.

I was thinking ot a US infantry pack and Heavy Weapons, same for Germans. a Thunderbolt because I like them, some tank destroyers for the U.S., flak for the Germans. I like the idea of some light recon stuff, but am not sure what to get, and wonder if the Micro Armor Rules really give a role to them other than weak tanks.

I think this hobby is as much about collecting as it is about gaming, at least for me. So I say build what you like. Like you, I started out with 10 Shermans and 10 Mk IVs back before the days of battle boxes, (late 70s!) What I have tried to do is build additional units by companies so, using my Americans as an example, I next bought enough Shermans to fill out a company, then bought infantry and halftracks for an armored infantry company, then added support elements that could be found in the battalion HQ company including a half track mortar platoon, M4 assault guns, recon platoon...

Next I added attached elements including an SP AAA platoon, more half tracks and infantry to use as engineers, M7 Priests & tank destroyers. Then I added another tank company, then another with 76mm armed Shermans, plus a light tank company. Now I can probably replicate on a 1:1 basis a WWII armored combat command, although I would need to raid my leg infantry battalion for enough infantry stands to fill out the armored infantry battalion. When are half tracks going on special again?

And that is just my late war Americans.

LandB:

I too have often had to generate my own opponants, rather than finding and plugging in to existing cliques. So building well-founded forces on two sides is an approach I have often taken.

(This is somewhat more difficult for me, as I do not choose to play or collect WW2 Germans. Not a problem for moderns, where I have US, French, Soviet/FSU, and Chinese forces in some numbers. But for my WW2 gaming I've had to build up an Italian and soon a Romanian force to have opponents for my early war French, mid-war US, and all-periods Soviets.)

Cav Dog wrote:I think this hobby is as much about collecting as it is about gaming, at least for me. So I say build what you like.

Well said! Agree on all counts.

What I have tried to do is build additional units by companies ...

I think Cav Dog has provided an excellent suggestion, well illustrated by his own example.

But as I understand it, LandB, you are trying to build for the GHQ "Micro Armor - The Game" ruleset. So you are not building at a 1-to-1 unit scale, but rather at a 1-to-Platoon unit scale.

That's not a problem. You can also build at that unit scale, actually a bit more economically than 1-to-1. It would be a LOT more economical, except that you are likely to build by batallion rather than by company, as Cav Dog did.

One of the side benefits of this hobby is the education it provides to those who are interested in military history. Even if you rarely/never get your units out onto a battleboard, the effort that you can put into collecting them is a wonderful education in itself. So I encourage you to do as Cav Dog has ... explore some sources about the organizational structures, and build out your collection by units.

A battalion of tanks should have 3 companies of Shermans and 1 of Stuarts, with a few Sherman 76s and a very few Sherman 105s in the mix. With 10, you've probably got enough Sherman 75s already. Just need to add the others.

Building up a battalion of armored infantry and the M3 halftracks to carry them should be high on your list. I am not very familiar with the GHQ ruleset, but it probably provides a suggested organization for this unit.

Then you should add a battalion of M7 Priest 105 SPHs. And some M8 armored cars and jeeps.

You might choose to bolster this with a company of tank destroyers, or not. Your choice, as they were not a permanent part of the armored division TO&E.

Now you've got a US armored division combat command, and you are off to war!

For the Germans, you can ad hoc a lot more. German kampfgruppen were formed from whatever forces were available at the time and place. Sure, there were regulations on the organization of infantry, panzer, jaeger, sturmgeschutzen, and artillery formations. But these were all affected by several years of casualties and uneven availability of replacements. So you might try building out regulation units if you'd like. Or you might just get the various items that interest you, and create your ad hoc kampfgruppen from an almost random collection for each game.

Oh, but please do take a few pictures and post them up for us as you build your collection. We would all love to peak at them.

I might suggest investing in some of the combat commands to flesh out your force. They will give you a good starting point to flesh out your forces without having to buy whole packs of 5. A good start for the US forces would be the armored infantry combat team and the infantry combat team. Add a pack of 105mm howitzers, and you are good to go for the US...

Thanks for the enouragement and advice. In the end I picked some infantry, some other stuff I liked, and ended up with the following order:

M10 Woverines x 5
U.S. Infantry x 2
Heavy Weapons
Puma x5
Greyhoud x5
German Infantry x2
Heavy Weapons
U.S. Halftracks w/seated infantry
Hetzer x5
STuGIIId x5
Stuart M5/M5A1 x5
pak 38
Wirbelwind
Thnderbolt

Some I though I needed (iinfantry), others I though would be fun if the rules give them a real role (armored recon) still others I remember from Panzer Leader as a youngster (Wirbelwind must have made an impression, and besides, there needs to be some protection from that Thunderbolt) and some are there for TO&E (Stuart). Oh, and I got the book, too.

Everything is going on a Litkoe 1" square with a magnetic bottom and a wire for status beads which I'm liking a lot. My first beads were tiny - big mistake. Now I have bigger (cheaper) beads with big holes that are easy to play toss on the wires. Yeah, I know the U.S. is still going to have trouble with the Panzers although hopefully the Wolverines will score an 8 for AP. I am tired of colum zero.

The whole experience reminds me of playing my favorite board game -- Panzer Grenadier -- with miniatures. (Which I just might do one of these days.)

I did a Russian FOW army and started ona German before I ran out of steam. I have painted up a ton of Warmachine since. I dunno -- just got a hug tank itch all of a sudden and Micro Armor seems so manageable.