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I some questions regarding the rules on formations, squadrons, and being out of formation.

Under 8.1.4, a circle of ships (escorts) surrounding a convoy is a standard configuration, and the squadron of escorts is considered to be in formation.

Under 8.1.7, a ship is out of formation if it begins the Initiative Phase more than 5 Kyds from the nearest ship in the squadron.

Let's say I have a large-ish convoy, and it is escorted by 4 DDs, one leading, one trailing, and one on each flank. It is likely that the DDs will be more than 5 Kyds from each other. Are they out of formation?

Now suppose a submarine is detected, and one DD breaks out to hunt down the sub while the other DDs remain on station. Is the hunting DD out of formation?

I would apply a standard of historical reality.

Escorts of a convoy (more likely DE, corvette, frigate, etc. than DD) have assigned positions. In WWII era, this is unlikely to be more than 5 km from the next escort (most of the communications was by flag and/or blinker because of radio silence requirements. If the distance were this great, I would say that being at/near this location was being in formation. I would apply the same criterion to radar pickets in the late Pacific theater. These were likely to be a considerable distance from the main fleet, but were expected to be at their assigned location. In this situation, the pickets were expected to be in relatively constant radio communications.

If an escort leaves its assigned position to go after a specific target (or for any other reason), then there is a break in the normal escort coverage. The ship is now definitely out of formation.

D. Scheef

In a situation involving a convoy of merchant ships being escorted, would one of the merchant ships serve as the flagship for the convoy?

A while back I read a memoir of a World War II British escort comander. The title of the book was either 'U boat Hunter' or 'U Boat Killer'. As I remember, the convoy commander was on one of the merchant ships, while the escort commander was on one of the escorts. A potential friction was that the convoy commander (frequently a recalled from retirement senior officer) was often extremely senior to the escort commander.
During the early part of the war, all communications were by flag or signal light. The author was overjoyed to finally have his ships equipped with voice radio.
Anyway, that's how the British ran their convoys. I'll look for the book to confirm my memories and pass on the real title and author's name.
Groundlber

saxophone wrote:
Let's say I have a large-ish convoy, and it is escorted by 4 DDs, one leading, one trailing, and one on each flank. It is likely that the DDs will be more than 5 Kyds from each other. Are they out of formation?

Now suppose a submarine is detected, and one DD breaks out to hunt down the sub while the other DDs remain on station. Is the hunting DD out of formation?

Saxophone,

In your example listed, The DD's are in an ASW formation, and therefore are in formation. This type of formation should be clarified a little better in 8.1.4.

In your second question, the DD that breaks away to hunt down the sub is still considered in formation, as she is still fulfilling her mission in hunting down the sub.

Here's a follow on question...

Does the convoy have a flagship separate from the escorting DDs?

The British system had the convoy commander on one of the merchant ships. This is from 'U-Boat Killer' by Donald Macintyre. The convoy commander was responsible for controlling the merchant ships and the escort commander was (logically) in charge of the defensive escort. Problems could develop when merchant ships strayed out of formation for whatever reason or the convoy commander and the escort commander had different navigational fixes. Also, for the eraly part of the war, signals were passed at the same speed as in Nelson's day, with ships that were many times faster and throwing out smoke to boot. A sadistic gamemaster could make each ship check to see if it properly received signals.
Anybody have any information if the Americans had different proceedures? My guess is that both navies had the same doctrine.
Groundlber

Saxophone,

Groundlber is right on in his responses. The convoy ships had a Convoy Commadore, as overall leader and flagship, with a vice and rear commadores chosen to fill in in case of demise of the overall commadiore. This convoy commadore, was a veteran merchant master, and was command of the merchant ships only. The escort group had a separate naval commander in charge of sheparding the convoy, protecting it from, and attacking maurading U-boats.


The escorts assigned to a convoy could be anywhere from 2-7 miles, ahead or abreast of the convoy in taking up their defensive positions. So an ASW formation, for a convoy could be quite lose indeed, and not restricted to the "line of battle" formations and restrictions listed in 8.1.4 thru 8.1.7 of the rules.

Thanks for the great questions.

Saxophone,

Groundlber is right on in his responses. The convoy ships had a Convoy Commadore, as overall leader and flagship, with a vice and rear commadores chosen to fill in in case of demise of the overall commadiore. This convoy commadore, was a veteran merchant master, and was command of the merchant ships only. The escort group had a separate naval commander in charge of sheparding the convoy, protecting it from, and attacking maurading U-boats.


The escorts assigned to a convoy could be anywhere from 2-7 miles, ahead or abreast of the convoy in taking up their defensive positions. So an ASW formation, for a convoy could be quite lose indeed, and not restricted to the "line of battle" formations and restrictions listed in 8.1.4 thru 8.1.7 of the rules.

Thanks for the great questions.

Saxophone,

Groundlber is right on in his responses. The convoy ships had a Convoy Commadore, as overall leader and flagship, with a vice and rear commadores chosen to fill in in case of demise of the overall commadiore. This convoy commadore, was a veteran merchant master, and was command of the merchant ships only. The escort group had a separate naval commander in charge of sheparding the convoy, protecting it from, and attacking maurading U-boats.


The escorts assigned to a convoy could be anywhere from 2-7 miles, ahead or abreast of the convoy in taking up their defensive positions. So an ASW formation, for a convoy could be quite lose indeed, and not restricted to the "line of battle" formations and restrictions listed in 8.1.4 thru 8.1.7 of the rules.

Thanks for the great questions.