Stoopid question, how can you tell if it's an M4(105)?

[saxophone]

Stoopid question...

With the hull and turrets sometimes getting mixed up, I find it difficult with these aging eyes to figure out which hull and which turret belong to an M4(105). Any times on how to identify an M4(105) hull and turret?

[Mk 1]

Cama is right about the shorter, fatter barrel. But sometimes that difference is hard to see.

I find it easier to ID the 105mm by looking at the mantlet. The barrel, at the point where it meets the mantlet, is notably more "stout" (ie: fat), and ... here's the important part ... on the mantlet of the 105mm Sherman there are 4 bolts in the mantlet at the 2, 4, 8, and 10 o'clock positions.

The M34a1 mantlet for mid- and late-war 75mm gun Shermans has no bolts around where the barrel meets the mantlet. There is a bit of a bulge in the mantlet (it is more thickly armored around the gun), but there are NO bolts on the 75mm.

Hope that helps.

[jb]

I find it easier to ID the 105mm by looking at the mantlet. The barrel, at the point where it meets the mantlet, is notably more "stout" (ie: fat), and ... here's the important part ... on the mantlet of the 105mm Sherman there are 4 bolts in the mantlet at the 2, 4, 8, and 10 o'clock position....

Those "bolts" at the 10 and 2 o'clock positions are really lift rings. There are 2 bolts between these, and four bolts under the gun tube.The other two 4&8 should be an opening for the gunners telescope and the other a coax MG opening. I can understand making the lift rings solid in this scale... Mk1 is right by IDing the 105 sherman by these "things"

[Mk 1]

Those "bolts" at the 10 and 2 o'clock positions are really lift rings. The other two are I don't know what as replicated by GHQ, but in reality should be an opening for the gunners telescope and the other a coax MG opening. Its odd that GHQ would represent the telescope and coax holes as protrusions! I can understand making the lift rings solid in this scale...But Mk1 is right by IDing the 105 sherman by these "things"

The "bolts" I am speaking of are not lift rings, nor co-ax or scope protrusions. They are bolts.


Take a look around the base of the barrel. You will see bolts at the 2, 4, 7, and 10 o'clock positions.

Lift-rings are sometimes present, and sometimes not. 75mm Shermans have gunner's sights and co-ax MGs. But only 105mm Shermans have the bolts.

[jb]

I see what you are saying now.You are talking about the four mounting bolts around the gun tube in the mantle. Those are really hard to see on the GHQ model without magnification. It is a lot easier to ID GHQ's 105 by the lift rings , telescope & coax protrusions on the mantle. None of the other GHQ shermans have them.

[Mk 1]

I see what you are saying now.You are talking about the four mounting bolts around the gun tube in the mantle. Those are really hard to see on the GHQ model without magnification. It is a lot easier to ID GHQ's 105 by the lift rings , telescope & coax protrusions on the mantle. None of the other GHQ shermans have them.

Ah so... right you are, JB!

I was a bit more focused on describing how you identify the Sherman 105 in real life. The 4 bolts are really the key. It sounds kind of silly, but I didn't even think to look at my GHQ Shermans to see if there were/are other distinctions.

And yes, it is rather hard to see the 4 bolts on the GHQ models at this scale, but they ARE there. You just gotta really WANT to find them.


Of course I only really WANTED to have to find them once, so I then mounted TCs manning .50cals on my Sherman 105s. That makes them a WHOLE LOT easier to keep track of on the gaming board.

[BattlerBritain]

Some good info there Mk1. I find it very difficult to tell the difference.

I like the picture of the real 105 Sherman above. Just look at the rust-and-stuff on the tracks and wheels of that Sherman. Wonder how often that tank moves, if at all?

Thanks,

Battler

[Mk 1]

I like the picture of the real 105 Sherman above. Just look at the rust-and-stuff on the tracks and wheels of that Sherman. Wonder how often that tank moves, if at all?

I don't think it has moved since they set it on that platform many decades ago. It is a museum piece, left out in the weather, but routinely painted and re-painted.

I find it very difficult to tell the difference.

Ah, but the subtleties of Sherman visID are not that difficult. You just need to know what to look for.

Except with the M4 vs. M4A2 vs. M4A3. I can tell early- from mid- from late production just fine, but judging which sub-model just by the details of the engine deck is a bit past me.

[saxophone]

I'm the original poster, and if it wasn't clear, I was asking how to identify the 105 Sherman from the others when looking a GHQ models.

Are these only differences on the turret? Are there differences in the hull? What if my turrets separate from my hulls, and I need to sort out which hull goes with which turret. How can I tell if a given hull belongs to a 105?

[Mk 1]

I'm the original poster, and if it wasn't clear, I was asking how to identify the 105 Sherman from the others when looking a GHQ models.

Yeah. Seems most everyone here understood that. Only one of us was dense enough to miss it.

Are these only differences on the turret? Are there differences in the hull? What if my turrets separate from my hulls, and I need to sort out which hull goes with which turret. How can I tell if a given hull belongs to a 105?

The GHQ Sherman 105 is, I believe, mounted on the same hull as the standard M4A3 75mm Sherman.

That is as it should be, as in real life the 105mm version was produced with a different turret fit-out (same casting, different interior) and different stowage (again different interior), but on the same hull.

If there IS in fact a difference in the GHQ models, I won't be able to back-track to figure it out, as my turrets have been swapped around too many times to know which one originally belonged to which hull.