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WM47 Alternative History

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:21 pm
by sultanbev
Hi all, coincidentally, and completely independent of John Fernandes WM47 outline history presented in the recent newsletters, I had written an alternative time line, called WW2.5. It says on the newsletters that we are free to post our alternative WW2 timeline, so here's mine:

VAMPYRE WARS WW2.5

INTRODUCTION
The original inspiration for these lists was Wikepedia Althistory that I was pointed to on these links:
http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Transy ... te_Europa)
http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Hungar ... and_Siegt)

This got our group preparing and gaming with Hungarian and Romanian 6mm armies, and the rest just followed on!

There seems to be an increasing interest in “what-ifâ€￾ WW2 situations and equipment, and the following companies are producing 6mm models that are suitable:
GHQ WM47 range (March 2009, initial German releases)
Raiden Miniatures Luft’46 aircraft
Navwar projected WW2 Germans, T-44
Irregular Miniatures (PAK44, Tortoise, Maus, T-95 GMC)
Skytrex (make a Russian “IT-130â€￾ which makes a good ISU-130)
In addition there are a variety of “what-ifâ€￾ models and kits in 20mm, 1/72 and 1/76 from the likes of Cromwell, Revell, Pegasus, PM Models, Matador, etc.

You may not agree with all the premises, and that is fine, and your alternative history timeline may be different than mine, but hopefully you will find this WW2.5 idea inspirational, and if it gets you playing novel battles and campaigns, then it has been a worthwhile project.

RATIONALE
Start WW2 as it does up to June 1940, where the BEF is trapped in France and ends up in German PoW camps or interned in Vichy France.
UK sues for peace with Germany end 1940, but not ratified until early 1941. By which time the Italian colonies fall as they do historically to the Brits.
Germany is lenient (as Hess's terms were rumoured to be historically) but orders the break up of the CW and colonial empire, and gives Gibraltar to Spain to buy Spanish acquiescence. Germany is keeping an eye to its sole source of Wolfram, its mines in Portugal, and a lenient peace with Britain allows unfettered shipping of Wolfram up the Channel, instead of by rail overland. Wolfram is used to make tungsten carbide tools and the core of APCR rounds, so is vital to the Reich.
The major blow to the British is losing Gibraltar and Cyprus, the latter becoming a German airfield of immense proportions.

Egypt, always anti-British, becomes independent and soon takes over Cyrenaica and Libya in late 1941. British forces in Egypt are forced to leave by treaty and head south into the Sudan and thence to Eritrea, Somaliland, etc.

South Africa becomes neutral leaning towards Axis, receiving German arms in return for precious minerals.
India, Canada, NZ, Australia ignore terms but end hostilities against Germans. A sort of armed neutrality exists, where UK keeps its navy, but isn't supposed to deploy into the North sea, but Germany cannot enforce terms because of its all out involvement in Balkans and then Russia. Britain gets around peace terms by sending British battalions abroad to serve in CW brigades, and by exporting a lot of military production and design to the Commonwealth.

Italy, thwarted in the Middle East, attacks Greece as historically, and suffers defeats such that the Germans come to their aid, and end up invading Yugolsavia as well. The might of the German armed forces is then directed at Russia in June 1941.

Japan, seeing disruption of UK Empire, attacks US as historically and the UK Empire, taking Burma and invades India in 1942. Indians rally, with US/CW support and with full might of US power aimed solely at Japan, clear it out and invade Japanese homeland in summer 1945. Russians help a bit by invading Manchuria/Kuriles as historically. Parallel to this Germany, Finland, Hungary, Romania, Slovakia concentrate on manoeuvre battles and destroy sufficient Soviet armies that by early 1945 they are defeated, and sullenly sue for peace. Germany takes all land down to Caucasus, and the Russian zone in Northern Iran.

US doesn’t really care that Russia goes down, being staunch anti-communist, but aids them a bit sufficient to bribe them into taking on Japan at the end.

Thus by 1946-50, we have Europe at peace, Japan and Russia defeated, UK and France at forced peace, US wanting to break Germany's 3rd Reich, but not easily able to get in. So they court Iran and Turkey, whilst the Germans court Syria, Iraq, and Spain.

Italy, losing N Africa, is given Iraq to court by the Germans, and the Balkans, which just happens to be in full insurrection, and the Italians get duped into garrisoning the whole of Greece, Albania, Yugoslavia, in return for German economic aid. Bulgaria keeps a low profile and becomes a favoured nation of Germany, Romania and Hungary prepare for war.....

In 1950 Romania invades Hungary to try and seize Transylvania, hence the War of the Vampyre!

The 5 year long struggle weakens Germany’s two biggest allies, and America, rallying the Commonwealth with money and food, musters the liberation of Europe. A Commonwealth Corps invades Egypt to ensure the complete Allied control of North Africa. This also allows the US a secure line to the fledgling Jewish camp, which is liberated from the Arab German control. Shipping a French force from North Africa to Lebanon, a combined CW-French-US Corps wrests Syria from German control. Simultaneously, an American Cavalry Corps in Iran wrests Iraq from Italian control, and this closes Axis links to Middle East oil. Fearing a German counter strike from the Caucasus, an US Airborne Corps advances into Azerbaijan.

The Italians, bogged down in the Balkans, where OSS/SOE forces continue to stir up active opposition, have no ability to respond aggressively, and North Africa and the Middle East falls to the Commonwealth and America. France retains the Lebanon, and garrison Syria.

Germany, however, would not stand idle, and considers its options.
1) Create a distraction by getting Spain to attack Portugal to ensure Wolfram supplies. Once the US declare war, their incredibly powerful navy would outmatch the Kriegsmarine, despite the 3 H45 class super battleships and Graf Zeppelin carriers operating navalised Ta-183 fighters and Hs-132B divebombers.
2) A massive two pronged assault on Turkey, with 2 Panzer Korps and a Bulgarian Corps attacking from the west, and a Mountain Troop Corps and Infantry Corps attacking from the Caucasus, with the Syrians causing disturbances from the south.
3) Invade Iran from the Caucasus and Iraq to seize the Persian Gulf oilfields completely.

The Allies have options, with Turkey virtually on side. They can:
a) Launch two Corps and the best Turkish Army into Bulgaria. This would take out Germany’s most useful ally and threaten oil supplies in Romania, and link up with partisans in the Balkans, thereby leading to northern Italy.
b) With two amphibious Corps strike from North Africa into Sicily, Italy, or southern France.
c) Re-start the war in Russia by (with permission) landing 2 Armies in the Far Eastern Russia, and take the long road across Asian Russia to liberate Russian territory that way.
d) Build up in England and land in NW Europe, direct into the heart of the beast.
e) Work slowly up the Caucasus combined with naval landings in the Black Sea and airborne ops from Turkey.
f) Can you think of something else? Game on!

I have detailed notes on each country if anyone is interested, that I can post here.

For those who wish some TOE ideas for the armies of the world in WM47 or WW2.5 time-line, MicroMark has produced a special edition set totalling 95 lists for just about everybody in the world that matters. These include all the things you are aware of, eg Centurions, Avengers, Burneys, E-series, T-29, Is-7, etc, but also stuff you might not be as aware of, eg Spanish and French 75mm APDS, Sentinel tanks, Fochs tank destroyers, FA223 helicopters, etc. Okay, not all are available as models, yet...... but with enough demand, anything is possible!

These organisation charts are all based on real world TOE, just vamped up a bit (or a lot in some cases), the aim being to provide a sensible organisation framework on which to carry out wargaming scenarios, campaigns and battles.

The lists are designed so that existing WW2 collections can be used, thereby allowing more gaming opportunities with the models you already may have. Cavalry get a bit of a come back, just because we all like the idea deep down! Although in reality a lot of the terrain of the world would actually be suited to cavalry operations. If sufficient interest is shown, air force lists will be constructed as well. I should note here that MicroMark do over 2000 historical organisation charts as well, all wargamer friendly for whatever rules and scales you use, but are especially aimed at micro armour gamers.

I'm not sure I'm allowed to hotlink to other companies in here, so until I hear otherwise, feel free to email me for details of the MicroMark collection, at sultanbev@googlemail.com

Mark

Data on Deutschen H45 schlachtschiffen?

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:59 pm
by Schwerepunkt
I presume these are enlargments of giant H-44 projects designed in 1944. What are the length, beam, draft (dimensions), belt, turret, conning tower, total deck (armor), main battery number and caliber (for example 8-21inch/60 (4x2), secondary (same), tertiary (same). Aircraft number and catapults. I have the H-44 by Superior (4 of them) but it would seem building two H-45 capital ships would prevent much tank production.

H44 BB

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:18 pm
by sultanbev
H44 super BB:
139,264t full load
1133' x169' x 44' (waterline length x beam x draft)
8x 20.6" guns, 12x 5.9" guns, 16x 105mm AA, 16x 37mm AA, 40x 20mm AA, 6x 21" TT, 6 seaplanes
14.96" belt, 12.99" deck, turret at least 15"
speed 30kts, 22kts on diesels only

Mark

Ok! I misunderstood

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:21 am
by Schwerepunkt
Your message indicated H-44 and if it had been H45 I would have jumped at the new design. I am well aware of the awesomeness of H-44 and hope that GHQ would eventually produce it along with Lion, Montana, 6 20inch gunned Yamato and Alsace (12 15inch).

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:10 am
by sultanbev
oops, yep sorry I put H45 in the WW2.5 preamble, may be it should have read H44. I don't know enough about the naval developments to know whether there was an H45 plan. Think the H44 was awesome enough! 20.6" guns (52cm), don't think anyone has performance data for those beasties!

Mark

Actually, they were..

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:11 am
by Schwerepunkt
...50.8cm or 20inch guns. In the late 1930's when the Z-Plan was discussed, Hitler had wanted 80.0 cm (31.5inch) guns, the size of Dora put on new battleships but he was soon talked out of it when it was explained how big the vessels would have to be to mount those guns.

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 4:32 am
by sultanbev
Well, there is a H45 after all

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... &p=1277891),

can you imagine trying to park a 700,000t battleship! :shock:

Mark

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 5:11 am
by Theodore
I like the idea of a WW 2.5 spurred by Patton. As part of his thoughts that we should rearm the Germans and finish the Russians while we were there. So the captured German munitions infrastructure starts turning out the new WM47 vehicles to spearhead Barbarosa II with US and other Allies.

H45

Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:40 am
by Schwerepunkt
The entire concept of a 700,000 ton battleship is quite impossibe. As things turned out, the H-44 design was only a concept study. However, I have four of them and have gamed them in 1/1200 and they usually wipe British, French or American forces.
The Alternate Histories I have read thus far are quite good and I plan to purchase some Hungarian/Romanian forces to use in such a conflict.
Everybody keep up the good work. Bob :D