Centurion MkI questions

[av8rmongo]

Did they see real service anywhere? I've read that it was the Mk3 that went to Korea and the Mk2 "rapidly replaced the MkI". I'm ready to hit send on my order but not if its just for fantasy WM '47 play.

If it didn't see any real service can anyone tell me what mark Centurion does offer? I recognize that they have a split package 105mm/84mm turrets. Are they Mk 5? I guess the 20pdr version is either Mk 3 or 5 but is there a discernable difference for the 105mm version? Thanks in advance.

Paul

[Donald M. Scheef]

From what I have been able to find, the Mk1 (and similar in appearance Mk2) never saw combat. A small number (fewer than ten) of the Mk1 arrived on the European continent shortly after the German surrender. When production of the Mk3 started in about 1948, all the Mk1 and Mk2 hulls were converted to specialty use (such as armored recovery vehicles). Therefore, N531 would be useful only for hypothetical Wermacht '47 scenarios.

For Korean War and later, IS-1 provides appropriate hulls for Mk3 and Mk5 (only two Mk3 turrets per pack, but you could order extra parts from GHQ). Aside from the different guns (17 pdr for Mk1 & Mk2, 20 pdr for Mk3, 105 mm for Mk5/2), the turret shape of the Mk1 & Mk2 differed significantly from that of the later marks. Otherwise, the Mk3 and Mk5 were very similar in appearance.

Don S.

[piersyf]

The main difference between the Mk3 and the Mk5 from a model point of view is that the 105mm L7 has a bore evacuator (the lumpy bit in the middle of the barrel) and the 20pdr on the Mk3 doesn't. You can see that in the product shot for IS1

P

[av8rmongo]

Thank you both.

I'm familiar with IS1, I have 20 or so but I was unsure what Mk they are. I'm looking for something appropriate for the early Berlin Brigade and was unsure if IS1 had anything special, any modification, that would make it stand out as "only Israeli". Mk 5 thru whatever final Mk there was all look essentially the same - so much the better.

Paul

[piersyf]

No, IS1 represents unaltered British Centurions, Mks3 and 5. IS4 has the first Israeli modification of the Centurion. Outwardly the most obvious change is the raised engine deck as the power plant was changed.

IS1 can be used for early BAOR, Korea India/Pakistan (Centurion VS M47) and Vietnam as well as Israeli, Jordanian and South African (VS Angola).

P

[OBe]

The major difference between the Mk3 and Mk5 is the substitution of Browning MG's for the Besa MG's. that's it....fairly simple.

The 20 pounder was often retrofitted with a bore evacuator, so it may appear to be similar to the 105mm version. In 6mm, you'd be hard-pressed to determine the difference between the 2o pdr & L7 (I just looked at my IS1's & IS4's & couldn't.....).

When the Mk5 was fitted with the 105mm, it was referred to as the Mk 5/2. It initially (always??) came fitted with a range=finding MG until replaced by lasers.

Australian variants retained the 20 PDR for their entire service, and a number of them (kept in Oz) were not fitted with an evacuator. All the Cent's deployed to SVN had bore evacuators and ranging MG's (and had the bazooka plates removed because they caused terrible mud build-up).

[av8rmongo]

All,

Thanks for the detailed responses. As I go back in time building my Cold War collection I learn more and more. Its fascinating to me how different nations designate their kit and the modifications to their kit. Sometimes the minutia can seem a little like train spotting but it is truly staggering how much all of you know about everything, there is always an expert on this forum. So again thank you for all your hjelp.

As for the MkI Centurion, I'll pass. Its a beautiful model in keeping with GHQ's excellent standards but since it never really saw combat and was rapidly replaced my improved marks it won't find its way onto my work bench.

Paul