GHQ Models Forums

When China entered into the Korean War, did they have any armour or was it all infantry?

Probably others more versed on the subject around here, but I beleive the Chinese did use armour (late model T-34s) through out the Korean Conflict.

Can't say for the opening days, but Chinese armor did play a role on the retreat from the Yalu river. I'd have to go back to some of my books to get a better picture of numbers. Before the Chinese involvement, if you want an interesting action to run, try Task Force Smith, not to try to win for the US side, but to see how long you can hold. This was the first ground combat for US troops in the Korean War.

Thomaso827 wrote:Can't say for the opening days...

Well, for the opening days it's easy. No Chinese forces were involved for the first part of the war. It was not until US/UN forces reached the Yalu that the Chinese intervened.

... but Chinese armor did play a role on the retreat from the Yalu river. ...

Most sources I have read say that Chinese armor did not play a significant role in any campaigns of the Korean war.

There were some Chinese tanks that saw combat. Primarily T-34-85s, and perhaps a few SU-76s. Some Chinese sources indicate that JS-2s also saw combat, although as I understand it US/UN forces never identified them on the battlefield. Certainly US and UN forces were concerned about the presence of JS-2s in the Chinese inventory, and took measures to prepare in case the Chinese committed them to action. The French shipped M36s to Vietnam (then French Indochina) in the early 1950s specifically because of these concerns.

But it seems that Chinese armor of any make was exceedingly rare on Korean battlefields. It is likely that Chinese tanks were used primarily as mobile direct-fire artillery platforms, and did not venture forward to engage in close combat. Nothing at all like the sweeping armored spearheads that the North Koreans used in the first part of the war.

Before the Chinese involvement, if you want an interesting action to run, try Task Force Smith, not to try to win for the US side, but to see how long you can hold. This was the first ground combat for US troops in the Korean War.

There were several battles in the first phase of the war that make for interesting gaming. Task Force Smith is probably the best known of these, and does indeed make for interesting times on the game table. There are many scenarios available for the table-top gamer.

Also the taking of Taejon by the NKPA can provide interesting scenarios for US infantry vs. Korean T-34s (first use of the 3.5in "super bazooka" occured around that time). Also the US 27th Infantry at Kumchon.

If you are itching to get some armor-on-armor action, try the USMC 1st Provisional Brigade in the Naktong Bulge for the first encounters between T-34s and M26s. The "Bowling Alley" battles near Tabudong, in of August of 1950, saw several clashes between company-sized units of Marine M26s and NKPA T-34s backed by SU-76s.

Hope that helps.

The Chinese 'volunteers' in Korea were overwhemingly infantry. I read somewhere (maybe in something by Frank Chadwick?) that the Chinese troops were the remnants of a Nationalist army that was cut off in northern China and couldn't fight their way to Taiwan. That could be a partial explanation for the lack of support elements in the Chinese divisions: 'No tanks or artillery until you redeem yourselves'. I think the UN forces having air superiority had a lot to do with the makeup of the Chinese forces also. The Chinese had to make a virtue of necessity.
I can't give any first hand accounts- the only Korean era vets I know were Navy guys.
Groundlber

The M26s at Tabudong were Army M26s. The Marines were more than busy in at the Naktong "bulge" and the counterattack in the South. I have run staff rides of the area with GEN Piak, ROK Army. He defended that area supported by an Army RCT. Inrteresting place.

Bruce

Been too long since I worked with it. I had read This Kind of War but it's been 15 years ago, and I'm afraid any memory of where I got the Chinese tanks info is gone at the moment - not so much a key roll, just that there were some in action is all I remember now. The book, Marine Tank Battles in Korea is a good source for game info, and it is easy enough to convert the ASL scenarios for Task Force Smith and Inchon if you find them online. TF Smith was part of the French ASL magazine Tactiques and has been made available for free on the web. The Inchon scenario I found by accident and dont recall where I found it now.

I was stationed in Korea in the scout platoon for the 1/72 Armor in 76/77, and have wished often that I had spent more time wandering the country to see the historical sights, but I was a bit of a barracks dweller back then, building models and playing some old SPI games to try to make the tour go by quickly. Didnt make that mistake when I went to Germany.

Tom

Someone asked this in the Cold War Commander forum, here was my reply:

More info here:
http://china-defense.blogspot.com/2009/04/i-was...

including:
"2nd Tank Division, November 1950:

Division HQ (Commander Xiao Feng, Political Commissioner Wang Shiren)
- Recon Battalion.
- Engineering Battalion
- AAA Battalion
- Transport Battalion
- Medical Battalion
- Communication Company
- Military Police Company
- Repair and Maintenance Depot
- Field Hospital

3rd Tank Regiment
4th Tank Regiment
Motorized Infantry Regiment (former 258th Regiment)
Mobile Artillery Regiment (former 306th Regiment)

Korean War Period:

On November 11th, 1950, two Soviet Tank Regiments; one from the Ukraine Security Guards and the other from the Moscow Guards arrived in Xuzhou and transferred their equipment to the 2nd Tank Division en masse. Both the 3rd and 4th Tank Regiments received 30 T-34 tanks, six IS-2 heavy tanks, four ISU 122mm self-propelled guns, and two T-34 armored recovery variants each.

The Mobile Artillery Regiment received one battalion of twelve ISU-122 and two battalions of twelve 76.2mm field guns and soon they were dispatched to the Korean War.
Much as had been the pattern during the Chinese Civil War, in Korea the 2nd Tank Division was not employed as a whole unit, but rather split out to serve as infantry support units performing fire support tasks.

2nd Tank Division’s 3rd Tank Regiment, AAA Regiment, and Engineering Regiment entered Korea on May 30th, 1951 and saw action by June as a support element of the 39th and 43rd Army. They claimed two tank kills and one damaged in 18 engagements but were almost wiped out by UN forces at the same time. The 3rd Tank regiment left Korea on July 20th 1952 and returned back to Xuzhou on August 1st. The following year the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Company of the 3rd Tank Regiment took part in the 1953 National Day Parade in Tiananmen Square.

The 4th Tank Regiment arrived in Korea on June 27th 1952 as a replacement for the 3rd and had a better combat performance while supporting the 23rd and 38th Army. As an example, in eight engagements Tank Number 215, a T-34, claimed five tank kills and one damaged. In addition, it was credited with 26 bunkers, nine artillery pieces and one truck destroyed. As a result, Tank 215 was honored as a “People’s Heroic Tankâ€￾ in July 1952 and is currently in display at the PLA’s Armor Engineering College in Beijing.

Both the Motorized Infantry Regiment and Mobile Artillery Regiment were deployed to Korea on Feb 15th, 1953, and served as mobile defense units to guard against a possible UN amphibious or airborne operation into China’s supply route into Korea and saw no action. On May 1953, they were ordered to the front to support the 23rd and 24th Army during the Battle of Seoul."