GHQ Models Forums

I was reading a Squadron Signal publication on the Afrika Korps last night and I was struck by a statement that by 1943 up to 85 per cent of their equipment was captured vehicles by the end. Clearly there are lots of pictures of such vehicles but this seems a high figure - anyone know anything about this?

It also makes me think we could do with a few british trucks without the canvas covers to mount some 20mm on and perhaps to portee the 6pdr for the Brits. Anyway, lots of scope to mess with the vehicle stats in the rulesets!

CG1

I hadn't seen that figure, but I dont doubt it for the Afrika Korps. The allies were their best and perhaps only supplier at times with German shipping and air assets under constant attack. The Panzer Colors books have several images that would help. After Kasserine Pass, lots of US halftracks, trucks, etc. were picked up off the battlefield. For the British, after Tobruk fell, and with several reverses along the way, undamaged or lightly damaged vehicles were picked up. FoW has this in place, with large numbers of captured German gear for the Russians to use, but only limited Russian tanks in German use. I'd say we need to explore this to add some variety to many of our games.

Tom

In May 43, when the Afrika Korps surr4endered in Tunisia, the 85% of their transport vehicles (including halftrack) was captured to the Allies. For other equipment like tanks or weapon the percentage was mauch less or about zero.


The use of captured vehicles was a standard of Axis in Africa and of the Wehrmacht in general. Thinks only to all the French vehicles, tanks and weapons used in Europe.

This was done to compensate the insufficent national production. For maintenace reasons it is mainly a question of quantities captured. The transports were easier to maintain than tanks. For the weapons the main problem was an adequate supply of ammunitions to allow for a certain use.

Rommel used a British captured vehicle as command post.

Thomaso827 wrote:I hadn't seen that figure, but I dont doubt it for the Afrika Korps. The allies were their best and perhaps only supplier at times with German shipping and air assets under constant attack. The Panzer Colors books have several images that would help. After Kasserine Pass, lots of US halftracks, trucks, etc. were picked up off the battlefield.

For my Italians (planned for Tunisian service) I have a couple of kit-bashed 65mm mountain guns mounted on US 3/4 ton trucks.



They are primarily there to support my Sahariens.

FoW has this in place, with large numbers of captured German gear for the Russians to use, but only limited Russian tanks in German use. I'd say we need to explore this to add some variety to many of our games.

The Germans made very wide use of captured vehicles, but mostly in transportation units. So French, British, US and/or Russian trucks can be included in any German force if you need some added wheels.

For my Romanian forces I have a fair bit of captured kit "on the menu", including BA-10 armored cars, GAZ trucks (quite popular with the Romanians, as they already had a factory producing the GAZ's Ford engine under license), 45mm AT and 76mm field guns, and a variety of French kit (which was provided to them from German war booty, but also from pre-war purchases from France and post-1940 purchases from Vichy France).

The GHQ Romanian infantry heavy-weapons kit even comes with captured Soviet machine guns, which seems a bit odd to me as the Romainians had their own, quite good home-produced MGs in necessary quantities.

I am also looking forward to fighting against German opponants with Pz IVh's and StuG-III's, which while not "captured" (bought from the Germans and brought into service just as Romania changed sides) will make for some interesting late 1944 / 1945 action I'm sure.

Rommel's captured Quad vehicle that is associated so much with towing the 25lbrs is a good one-off, and there are pics of a captured Grant, but again, they are more one-off sorts that might be an interesting model to add among the Mk IIIs.

Tom

A Roomel's Quad is new to me. Rommel's used a captured AEC Dorchester named MAX. Sometimes he borrowed from Gnerale Cruel a siimilar vehicle named MORITZ.

Other vehicles used by Rommel in Africa were Kfz 15 and SdKfz 250 (GRIEF and ADLER).

Maybe a misunderstanding on my part, or perhaps in a caption I saw, but Rommel is pictured riding in a capturd Quad somewhere along the line. With the smile he has in the image, probably pretty early on. Photos and captions in books can be so misleading if they are not correct, passing along years of misinformation to people like me. The number of times I see images of Mk IVs labeled as Tigers, even a StuGIII was labeled as a Tiger in one of the old Balentine Battle books. No wonder the troops always assumed they were being attacked by Tigers.

Tom

Two of my favorites in the Ballentine "illustrated history" series-
a beautifully clear side view of a Russian T-28 on a city street- labelled as a T-35; and a nice photo of a knocked out KV-1 captioned as a "burning Tiger". Sheesh...
Some of the "history" and "discovery" channel productions are equally "informative"...

Yours Truly wrote:For my Romanian forces I have a fair bit of captured kit "on the menu", including ...

Oh, and I forgot to mention... for battles in the Crimea I may also bring in a couple US M3A1 (Stuart) light tanks, and if up on the steppes maybe even a US M3 (Lee) medium or two, lend-lease tanks provided to the Soviets which were captured in the Spring of 1943 and put to use locally by Romanian forces. In these cases I might well add some special rules affecting these vehicles (limits on mobility or reliability, ammunition and/or accuracy), as most sources indicate these were strictly ad hoc "conscriptions" with no developed support infrastructure -- with several (dozens) recorded as being captured, but with none making it back to Romania to join the 1st Armored Division (which was then re-forming after the debacle at Stalingrad).

Captured tanks and captured trucks, how about planes....?

An Italian was flying a P-38 and shooting down US bombers, and to trap this pilot, a specially configured B-17 was painted up with the Italian pilot's wife's name on the plane. When the Italian saw it they the enemy pilot got out in front of the B-17 in a duel. The B-17 was armed heavily with forward firing .50 cal. and the Italian was shot down and captured and spent the rest of the war in a US prison camp.

The Italians tell the story in a different way.

It was a P-38 G captured on 12/06/43 when it landed in Sardinia for a navigational error(it was directed to Malta from Gibraltar).

The plane was brought to Italian mainland and tested by Lt.Col. Angelo Tondi . He brought it in action only once, on 12/08/43 against a formation of B-24's shooting down one of them.

It was never used again because of fuel problem: the Italian gasoline was too corrosive for itsb engines. In any case the plane disappeared after the Italian Armistice of 08/98/43.

TAMMY wrote: In any case the plane disappeared after the Italian Armistice of 08/98/43.

As I understood it, the story was that both the plane, and LtCol Tondi, were not seen again. At least not by the RSI. It was said that, when the armistice against the allies was announced, and he found himself in the portion of Italy occupied by the Germans, that he took "his" P-38 and flew it to his home town, landing it on a beach somewhere.

I suppose it may all be just a romantic tale for a MIA aircraft. But that's how I've read it.

I have done further research and teh results are.

1) The story as related by Chrisswim come from a Martin Caidin book. He says that a P-38 piloted by Guido Rossi (In Italy is a name like John Smith) was shot down by a YF-40 with the name of his wife on the nose. It is a complete fantasy.

2) The actual P-38G had italian inisgnia or at least the white cross on the rudders and white rings on the tails.

2) Lt. Col. Tondi attempted to intercept US bombers in a few occasions but he succeded only once. The sources are eqully divided between a B-24 and a B-17 shoot down.

3) After the action of 11 August the plane was groundede due to loss of fuel attributed to damages in the fight. Actually this was due to corrosion in the fuel tanks caused by the comppsition of the Italian fuel.

4) The plane was under repair at the Armistice date.so the fascinating hipotesys of a "home ride" would not have been possible. Moreover Tondi was a pilot in the RSI.

My conlcusiona on this matter are that once a legend is around it is difficult to cancel it amd that even after 65 years the details may be under discussion (B-24 or B-17)

TAMMY, thank you for your info. My source is World War II: Strange & Fascinating Facts, by McCombs & Worth, 1983.

Rossi, Guido
"Italian fighter ace. In May 1943, a US P-38 landed on Sardinia where it was captured by the Italians, Rossi received permission from Mussolini to the captured P-38 to shoot down unsuspecting straggler from Allied bomber missions. He would fly alongside a crippled bomber and offer to fly protection for them, then fall behind and shoot them down. Harold Fisher was the only survivor of Rossi's numerous kills. Fisher set up a specially armed and armored B-17 to decoy him into attacking so he could be shot down. Fisher had a picture of Rossi's wife painted on the B-17 and named it Gina after her. When Rossi appeared, Fisher told him over the radio how nice it was to live with her. This so infuriated Rossi that he abandoned his normal rear attack and set up for a head-on pass. The B-17 succeeded in shooting him down. Rossi was picked up by Allied aire-sea rescue and spent the rest of the war as a prisoner."

Fantasy. So you get to know who the opposing pilot is, his wife's name and where they live, perhaps in the American zone, a picture of her no less so you can paint it on the nose of your plane, and then you 'meet' Rossi as he focues on your B-17 cause it is wounded and no others..... and the enemy pilot accomodates you with a head-on pass, then air-sea rescue.

Okay, lets go back to captured trucks & tanks.

...duplicate.....