GHQ Models Forums

So Ive deciced to model the 5th SS Panzergrenadier Div. "Wiking". Im starting with one infantry company plus the heavy company and one tank company (In 42 himmler had pushed for all SS panzergren divs to have a full battalion of tanks, making it a panzer div in all but name). Im also including some divisional and regimental assets to the "kampfgruppe" such as recon and artillery detatchments.
I need a little advice on some indescretions and substitutes Im considering.
1) the heavy company uses 251/4's, what I gathered was these were "ammo schlepers" that towed the 75mm infantry guns. GHQ doesnt make.
2) the 5th SS got Panthers in 43 I think, Im giving them a mix of IV's and some tigers.
3) The regimental commander has a nephew in supply and managed to get a couple pak 43 88mm's instead of the 75mm pak40's.... is this too much of a stretch?
I chose the 5th SS because I have heard many say that waffen SS units got first choice on new equipment in many cases, as well as the full battalion supplied with 251's which many grenadiers despite popular belief did not.
While this is a mid-late war composition of the 5th SS I plan to eventually model a full regiment with the tank Battalion and some div. and reg. assets. Im also going to try to compose them so I can swap vehicles and equipment to convert them to early and early-mid war versions.
Any comments, advice, suggestions are welcome and wanted as well as any constructive critisism.

IIt all depends on the year you want to set the division. It was an infantry division till november 91942. It became a Panzer grenadier on 9 November 1942. And finally became a panzer division in february 1944.

From april 43 it shoud have a tank regiment, but it had only the 1st battalion as the 2nd (Panther) was formed on 5 December 43 only.

In 1943 it had two companies of Pz III and 1 company of Pz IV. No Tigers.
In April 1944 it was reorganized with two companies (1 & 4) on StuG and two companies (2 &3) with Pz IV.

The division got a full Genadier battalion on SdKfz 251 only in 1944, before it had one company only on half track.

The SdKfz 251/4 is a 251/1 with the interior modified to carry the ammunition of the iG and tow it. To all purposes it was replaced by the 251/9 but may be it was kept to tow some a/t gun.

Generally speaking for most of 1943 the division was quite undestrengthI. I can give you other details but only if uou give me a definite time frame and units.

sounds like your time frames are more accurate than my source, but essentially the same info I had. I am starting with the late war configuration 44-45(after thier refitt). Im showing the 251/9's in the company but the heavy company still shows I think 4- 75mm iG's with 251/4's. Thanks for the tip, guess Ill buy more 251/1's to substitute.
As far as the Tiger's... well thats a little artistic license. I like them but I dont think Ill use them. My source compares eastern front motor pools and artillery parks as looking like "used car lots" so I got a mix of Panzer IV's (F and G's I think) to show this. Maybe I will buy the Panthers after all. I got the StuGs and also some 7.62 Marder IIs and arty for regimental assets.Thanks for the help. I'll let you know how the line-up turns out. Maybe Ill add a company from Sturmbrigade Wallonien.

It is always best to build units for a particular snapshot in time...

A suggestion. Here is the Tanks on hand in the East 1 July 43. Picked that as Kursk (Zitadelle) was the big attack that finally failed and flipped the Germans over to the defensive for the rest of the war...

SS PzGren Div Viking:
5th SS Pz Regt, 1 Bn:

(4x) Pz II

(1x) Pz III short 50mm/L42
(14x) Pz III long 50mm/L60
(8x) Pz III short 75mm/L24

(1x) Pz IV short 75mm/L24
(16x) Pz IV long 75/L43-48

...so none of the glamorous Panthers (which were all in 2 bns w/the PzGren Div (GD) )

...as far as Tigers go for Kursk...

-13th company of the Pz Reg GD of the Herman Goerring Division was 1 company of 15 Tiger 1
-13th company of the 1st SS Pz Reg, 1st SS PzGren Div "Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler"was 1 company of 13 Tiger 1
-2nd SS Pz Reg, 2nd SS PzGren Div "Das Reich" had a "Heavy Company" of 1 company of 14 Tigers, FYI also had 2 companies of 25 captured Soviet T-34s!
-9th company of the 3rd SS Pz Reg, 3rd SS PzGren Div "Das Reich" was 1 company of 15 Tiger 1

The SS PzGren divisions were with Army Group South.

The (in)famous Elefants were in the Northern part of the battle with Army Group Center...

Hope this helps!

Frank

Of course you ment:

13./PzRgt GD with PzGren Div "Grossdeutschland"

and

9./SS-PzRgt 3 of 3rd SS PzGren Div Totenkopf.

TAMMY wrote:Of course you ment:

13./PzRgt GD with PzGren Div "Grossdeutschland"

and

9./SS-PzRgt 3 of 3rd SS PzGren Div Totenkopf.

You are correct.

Lots of data and sorry for those 2 typos. Good catch.

Just trying to pitch in and help out... BTW, the info comes from pg. 68 of German Panzer Tactic in World War 2 by Charles C. Sharp. It is part of the Nafziger collection and is a collection of tactics from manuals, organization and strength of the Panzer units for each major campaign, Tactical Lessons by different units and their findings and reportings of their unit's combat and lessons learned.

I have just about worn this book out and it is VERY good.

All meat and no fat. Cannot recommend it highly enough...

Anyway, just trying to help out our fellow forum member w/ some research!

Frank

I have the Nafziger's book but in this case my data where taken from: the book
"Fire Brigades - The Panzer Divisions 1943-1945" by Kamen Nevenkin, J.J. Fedorowicz Publishing.

It gives a lot of details on the panzer divisions starting from July 1943 including monthly condition reports for each one of them (actually they are every two months).