GHQ Models Forums

with the new house and plenty of room in he basement, i'm gonna put in a soil table. kinda like a sand table but with bagged soil.
back in1978, a combonation of 2 things got me into wargaming: i found a hobby store that was selling out there ghq packs for $1(yep!) and an artical in wargamers digest called THE ADVANTAGES OF THE SAND TABLE.. i bought about 60 packs of micro armor that summer and me and my 8th grade buddies built an 8x8' sand table in my basement. that table gave 10+ years of wargaming fun. i always wanted to build another, but just never got back around to it. now i have more room and its on!
the digests artical was 4-5 pages and gave pointers on haw to build the table and what to use for effects. model rail road turf, dirt, stuff like that.not to put other kind of wargaming layouts down, but i think sand tables are the best. with a bit of work, theres no beating the terrain effects that can by achived with sand. thats said, sand has problems: wet sand is heavy. it has to be soaked before and during setup. its important to add a little white glue to the water so the sand does'nt start to crumble when it drys. and you have to cover the sand with green/brown colored turf so the thing does;nt look like africa every battle.so i got to thinking one night...
use bagged soil! it solves a bunch of sands drawbacks in one shot. its brown already, so i don't have to worry about the sand showing through the turf. when lightly wetted, it can be countoured just as easy as sand. and it is denser, so no vehicles sunk to the wheels!
i'm looking forword to starting! i have 2 4x8' pieces of 1/2" plywood, i have the 2x4's for the frame and benchwork. all i need to do id go to lowes and get the bags of soil. and i have to contact woodland scenics to ask if they will sell the different types of turf in bulk. that stuff is expensive!
what do you guys think? as the project moves along, i'll post pics.

Just a word of caution about a 'soil table.' Soil, even the sanitized type sold for indoor potting, will support growth of fungus, mold, mildew, etc.

Don S.

From My experience I think I'd use sand vs soil. For the reason stated above but the soil is formulated to grow things and you nay end up with a huge mess.

In the military we built a sand table for unit training and as long as it lasted the command let us use it on the weekends. (Gotta love it when the Government buys and pays you to build your table. )

The playground sand works well. Mold it with your hands then spray it with water to firm it up. You can do virtually anything. Weight and some mess are the biggest draw backs.

Plus if something happens and the sand ends up on the loor it is much easier to vacume.

Here's an idea,

Use various tones of brown colored sand that they have for those sand jar craft projects. No sanitation worries from soil fertilization, and by mixing and blending several tones (assuming you can find different tones) you can get some good variations of earth colors.

thanks for tha advice, boys!
like i said, i have plenty of experence with sand tables, but i don't like, well, the sand. if white glue isnt mixed in, or its not constantly misted with water, it gets loose. even with a top cover of turf. i just thought soil would be alot better. i don't want the fungus or mold tho. hmm...thought i was on to something there...

Once, long long ago, I tried to build terrain using paper mache on a table in our basement.

It never dried / hardened. Rather, while it was still damp, mold started to grow. Once the mold started, all of my efforts to stop the mold by accelerating the drying process were to no avail. Seems the mold retained moisture very effectively. Soon the whole thing was covered in green and black fuzz.

Hmmm, maybe that could work out better than I was thinking at the time. Self-flocking terrain?

But seriously, once moldy, the underlying material never dried, except that upper layers were eventually reduced to a fairly dry crumbly state once the mold had penetrated it and formed layers beneath the surface..

I'm not claiming that my experience is directly related to sand or soil tables. But it is an example of how easy it is to see something as a good idea ... when you don't know the ways it can go wrong.

Avoid the soil table, you will get growths.

Has anyone tried to get the traction sand used by railroads? I remember pouring 100lb bags of a very fine, slicate sand into train hoppers some 20+ years ago.

Also, has anyone tried molding terrain on the sand table and then overlaying with a matt or cloth?

I've never done this, but I have worked on some quite large sculptural projects (including cast metal doors), so it struck me that one material that might work (if money isn't an object) is the polymer clay used by model makers. Kinda fancy plasticine. Never dries, stays firm, takes a bit of an effort to shape (doesn't sag) but can be carved and moulded to take pre cast roads, riverbeds etc. Don't flock it, you'll never get it off! Use a flexible fabric type 'grass' surface. No heavier than sand or soil, and if your table collapses will remain in one piece!

Apachex wrote:Avoid the soil table, you will get growths.

Has anyone tried to get the traction sand used by railroads? I remember pouring 100lb bags of a very fine, slicate sand into train hoppers some 20+ years ago.

Also, has anyone tried molding terrain on the sand table and then overlaying with a matt or cloth?

I live 1 block or basically across the street from the RR line. Whenever those hoppers stop for a while they lose mounds of the sand you describe. I use it for desert terrain, or even snow covering with a white paint dry brush. The sand is so fine as to be almost translucent.I use it for terrain boards and then match it on my bases. Great stuff!

Here is a link to a sand table used by Steel Turtles Micro Armor Group from Los Angeles and Devel Dogs clubs San Diego. Pathfinder was the creator of the San Diego table. Check out the game photos.

http://www.photoshop.com/users/steelturtle

That European table is stunning.

I'm not sure I want to know how much it cost in terms of time and money to create.

In the most recent album there are what look like acrylic counters, where did you source those from or were they bench made at home?

Regarding the tables. I know that the one from Santa Clarita which Scott owns is mounted on heavy steel frame with heavy roller casters for ease of moving for storage. The table top is weather proof sealed from the elements. Table size is 5ft x 8ft. Sand is a mix of from what I remember red clay type dirt and a fine sand which was sifted throughly. I forget the persentage of the mix. This is the second table which was made after almost 20 years of the groups forming. Jack created the first original table when the group was gaming at The Last Genadier in Burbank Ca.
The second table which in San Diego Ca was created by Pathfinder. Its demension is larger fromwhat can make of it. The group setups up the most detailed terrain imaginable. These gents are very dedicated to the hobby and always continue to create the best scenry and game scenarios.

The acrylic markers look like they may be Litko Aero.

Yes they are and really helps in keeping track of action during the game.