German camo in the 1980s

Dog Smack · Post by **Dog Smack** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:33 am

Hi all,

What was the standard German camo during the 1980s? Was it overall green or did they have any patterns? I have only seen overall green. Also what year did they begin to switch to the 3-tone NATO camo?

Anyone smart on this??

Thanks

Steve

BattlerBritain · Post by **BattlerBritain** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:21 am

Up until about 1980 the Bundeswehr used plain green, although I'm not an expert on this.

I did come across a really excellent site that shows the German 3-tone Camo patterns on a range of Budeswehr vehicles at:
http://www.panzerbaer.de/colours/index.htm

It's in German but you can get what they're saying.

I'd also recommend doing a search on this forum for other posts on this (I'm sure there's plenty), and I know there's quite a few experts on this subject (Ben? you out there?)

Cheers,

Battler

av8rmongo · Post by **av8rmongo** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:47 am

There is a Bundeswehr thread on here somewhere with this information. I researched the same question a few years back but don't recall the exact answer for when they switched over. I'll try to find my source material for you but I remember being surprised how early it was. I want to say that by 1983 they were switched over to the 3-color NATO scheme, certainly by 1985. The stuff is buried in the garage so it might take some time.

Paul

Dog Smack · Post by **Dog Smack** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:54 am

Thanks for the replies

If only I had paid more attention in German when I was in high school!!! Oh well, good site for the patterns non the less. 1983 is a lot earlier than I would have thought myself! But all good info! Thanks for the help.

Steve

Dog Smack · Post by **Dog Smack** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 5:58 am

Man I'm so computer savey!! I searched Bundeswehr and there was the thread....with BattlerBritan asking the same question I asked follwed by av8rmongo answering.....

....I'm a genius

av8rmongo · Post by **av8rmongo** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:48 am

Dog Smack,

I checked my source book on the development of the Leopard 2 [Leopard 2 Main Battle Tank Development and German Army Service] and they started rolling out of the factory in 3 color NATO pattern with the Leo 2A3 (the 4th production batch) in December 1984. So extrapolating from that... New production from 1984 on would be in NATO colors others would lag a bit. I haven't found an "earliest use" date but I stand by my guestimate of 1983 or so. Note: 2nd and 3rd Leo 2 productions batches which started in 1982 were still rolling out of the factory in bronze green. Hope that helps.

Paul

av8rmongo · Post by **av8rmongo** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:12 am

Another tidbit:

For Leopard I series vehicles the Leopard 1A3/A4 (the welded turret) generally didn't get the NATO pattern. There were some that went through depot maint. in 1986 or so and were repainted but the type was removed from BW service by 1988.

The Leopard 1A5s all got the NATO pattern from the factory.

Prior to the NATO pattern there were field expedient camo patterns used, whitewash splotches for winter or mud colored splotches for spring etc. but there was no defined pattern for that. There was a 3 color pattern in limited use, I have 1 b&w photo of a Leopard 1 series tank and its impossible to tell what colors are used. the caption doesn't mention colors or timeframe beyond "before the NATO pattern" unfortunately.

Paul

33YearsGHQ · Post by **33YearsGHQ** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:48 pm

I was lucky enough to serve in the US Army in West Germany in 1984 and 1985 and spent quite a bit of time training with the West Germans. I can tell you that the majority of Marders, Leopard 1's, Luchs, Softskins, M113's and M109's were solid green at that time. The new Leopard II's were NATO 3 color and as other vehicles received higher level maintenance they were painted in camo. You really can't go wrong with either solid green or NATO 3 color from 1983 - 1987 as there certainly were vehicles in both schemes

Dog Smack · Post by **Dog Smack** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 4:00 am

Awesome guys!
Thanks for the responses. Good info and I will use it! Appreciate the help.

Steve