Modern/Cold War Civilians PLEASE

zaevor2000 · Post by **zaevor2000** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:28 am

European civilians!!!!
European civilians!!!!

War does NOT happen in a vacuum...

Exhibit A...situation in the Ukraine
Exhibit B...situation several years ago in Georgia where I posted pics of civilians walking around and civilian cars and trucks on the streets.

I have been begging and pleading for several years now...

Totally unrealistic to have urban or rural environments with not a civilian or civilian car or truck in sight...

Hell, put me down for 20 packs if that is what it takes to get this thing off the ground....

I have placed MANY orders several hundred dollars each OVER and OVER and OVER...

We keep doing the 20th variant of the M4 Sherman, dream up vehicles and ships that never even saw the light of day, but still don't have ANY civilians or cars or trucks from the Cold War or Modern era...

Shouldn't we be able to simulate a REALISTIC combat environment?

Those civilians don't just vaporize into thin air when combat breaks out

Sorry to keep harping on this year after year, but after investing probably over $30,000 in GHQ over the past 35 years, I would hope that my voice would be heard.

It breaks my heart that I have the ENTIRE 8th Guards Army down to PLATOON level, Have SEVERAL bookcases full of cases and cases of GHQ minis as Voltigeur and others in Texas have seen, but can't even mount 1 stand of civilians...

CG2 · Post by **CG2** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:11 am

I second that! And as part of the civilians, can we have some figures that could represent a VIP, a UN field worker and a lady reporter plus cameraman? Seems to be this is how scenarios start in Hollywood when one of these is kidnapped!

I could even see a combat command with these, a limo, a Toyota Landcruiser and maybe a Mercedes saloon (to represent a taxi) plus some MH-60s and some Special Forces?

Nazgul · Post by **Nazgul** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:22 am

I'm still waiting, but I found some decent figures from Microform Models. They are sold singly and need to be mounted. Not a lot of detail, but look pretty good.

The vehicles are nice too.

Cris

SPecial_63 · Post by **SPecial_63** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:43 pm

You can find also some on Shapeways, more Trucks than cars and a very fine Mobile Crane, make seach under keywords: Truck 1/285. Not cheap but very fine Quality.

whoa Mohamed · Post by **whoa Mohamed** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:49 pm

GHQ has in the past made Middle eastern civilians and Vietnamese civilians have they sold enough to justify the expense ? I just dont know I got several packs of each.
I can see a need for WW2 civilians as well and how many and what type of cars would make you happy? I think we should start a thread like the naval one and suggest individual year make cars and trucks .
Vehicles for each ERA WW2, Cold war HOT Korea and Vietnam cold war , Modern and then ultra Modern. But there are also major holes in all the Lines at present some so obvious that it makes gaming some battles and conflicts impossible to do with pure GHQ minnies...I don't know of any Company that has the resources to produce every military and civilian vehicle or AFV that has ever exsisted from WW1 to today. They put out x number of new minnies a year I wish they would do two batches a year of ten each myself but I can live with what they do put out , Hell sometimes Im not even happy with the models that they put out that I personaly wanted . as an example the M113 AS IMHO
the side applique plates are way to thick and the joins to prominent or the FV432 Mk2-3 Bulldog I would have prefered the raised commanders cupola but hey I still buy em.
So start your list and I will be happy to toss a suggestion or two but be warned Look at the loving care that Don puts into the Micronought list. All that work has not changed the Number of new ships released but it has added GHQ in making decisions on what to release......Mikey

zaevor2000 · Post by **zaevor2000** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:09 pm

Very good points.

I would recommend for civilians and civilian vehicles what are the most common that would be encountered....do not go down the rabbit hole of countless variants...

What do you see most civilians wear in photos where they're walking around....polo shirts/khakis, business suits, etc, Females as they walk around in public, maybe a few children in children's clothes....

For this to be effective it should be what you would see everyday walking around in the city...that is the whole purpose of having them...

For civilian vehicles, what are the most common vehicles that you see on the roads?
taxis? Hondas, Fords, SUV?

What ever is most representative of what you would see if you looked out a window on a typical busy European street..

I believe that would be the best solution.....

The exotic stuff can come later...if ever....

The whole point is to have a realistic environment....

I have loved GHQ minis since the first pack of King Tigers and Jagdpanthers I picked up at Nan's Games in Houston my Freshman year of High School in 1978.

I don't WANT to support another gaming company by buying figures and vehicles from them.

I want to buy them from the company that I have known and loved for over 35 years...

Frank

groundlber · Post by **groundlber** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:59 am

Let me add my voice to the chorus for World War Two and modern civilians.
A World War Two era vehicle set could include a boxy four door sedan, a streamlined sedan, a van body delivery truck, a city bus, and a two door convertible for the sporty set or the Air Force liason officer. Maybe a streetcar?
A modern set could include a minivan, a SUV, a four door sedan, a small hatchback, and a bus.
The vehicles should be generic, not a particular model or year. This solves copyright and trademark problems, plus makes the models more useful for different eras and locations.
World War Two civilians would be men in suits (and hats), women in dresses, and children as small versions of adults.
Modern civilians could have a lot more variety. I like the idea of a VIP and /or a press team.
Just my thoughts.
Groundlber

John Secker · Post by **John Secker** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:57 am

If you are looking at WW2 civilians, you should start with farmworkers, peasants and country people rather than men in suits. In those days a far higher proportion of people lived in the country, especially in the places where most of the fighting went on. And if they're going to appear on a battlefield they should be suitable for a refugee column (carts and barrows maybe) or hiding, not strolling about like a commuter out having lunch. That's why most railway model civilians (and those Shapeways figures) don't really look right to me.

Nazgul · Post by **Nazgul** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:38 pm

I see Allen's website has some modern cars and he's doing his own minis (like the Patriot). Maybe he'd consider molding these, or at least the generic. Like I said in another thread, niche covering Z scale railroading, 6mm and 1/285. From what I've see on other threads he'd have a reasonable market

. I'd buy more than just a few.

whoa Mohamed · Post by **whoa Mohamed** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:40 pm

Or maybe you could offer him some of yours that he could make masters and then resin molds.....Mikey

Nazgul · Post by **Nazgul** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:46 pm

I'm easy. I think I still have the basic masters for some of them like the delivery trucks. The rest were build off of the truck cabs. Anything to help.

zaevor2000 · Post by **zaevor2000** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:20 am

Civilians and civilian vehicles are part and parcel of today's conflicts.

Truly ashame we can't portray reality...

I really wish GHQ would be able to recitify this glaring hole in their line.

Even refugees would be fine...something...anything...to be able to honestly portray a European setting in a realistic fashion.

As can be seen here in and in every war in the 20th and 21st century...war does not happen in a vacuum.

There are always civilians present.

It is what it is...

Frank

bishnak · Post by **bishnak** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:33 am

I agree

TAMMY · Post by **TAMMY** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 12:08 am

I agree on civilian vehicles for modern era a bot less for WW II ones. I consider them as scenic elements necessary to compete the overall picture.

I am uneasy on civilian figures (I mean real civilians not guerrilla/partisans in civilian dress) on tabletop. I don't want to play "collateral damages" or "war crimes".

The reality in thegames should have some limit. After all there ano prisoners or wounded (to be taken care of) on the tabletop.

CG2 · Post by **CG2** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:57 am

Maybe not on yours but there are on mine! You can't wargame much more than a brief skirmish without considering logistics, wounded etc and you only have to look at the news to see what role civilians play in modern scenarios, which assumes that you can even tell the civilians from the combatants!