Most excellent
CV90
Moderators: dnichols, GHQ, Mk 1
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David F
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GHQ
- Site Admin
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- Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 1:50 am
- Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA
This model, and thread, perfectly illustrate a no-win conundrum that we frequently find ourselves in with models that we release. If we release a CV90 that is an uparmoured variant that nicely represents the actual vehicles that have been in use in the field, some people are unhappy because it's not representative of the models that came out in the '90's. If we come out with one with no add-ons from the 90's, we run the very real risk of being deluged with "Why did you model a prototype that is 20 years old, and was never put into any real service?! I wanted one to represent what is in Afghanistan."
Don't worry, we're big boys, and we can handle it, but please cut us a little slack. This is a rough business with thin margins. Everyone in the gaming business, including larger companies like Games Workshop, is pretty much limited to sales in small, niche stores and mail order. No one is doing huge runs of anything in the millions of units to sell at Wal-Mart. All of us have upfront costs in designs, mold making (we use a multi-stepped mold making process), etc. to get each model out. On top of that, many companies in the gaming industry are doing this all in First World countries, and are paying First World wages, not $0.25/hour.
We always understand that it is literally impossible to have 100% of the people happy about even a single release. Trust us, we know. The ship guys aren't excited about the armour releases, the WWII guys aren't excited about the Modern releases, the Napoleonic guys are excited about anything outside of their area, etc. We know that, and we can live with it. It's harder to deal with the negative feedback on the items that are really close to what people want. In a lot of cases the models that we put out fill a hole in the marketplace that has nothing else close to it. On this one does anyone else make a CV90? One that you are happy with? We really don't know if there is one out there, or not. Based on our customer feedback we decided to add it to our line. From the suggestions, we took our best shot at which one to do. Trust us, our intention is always to do the models/variants that we think that the largest number of people will want. The CV90 is currently used by about 7 countries, and all of them are not exactly the same.
We appreciate all of our customers, and understand that each of you has a unique opinion and can vote with your money. All that we ask is that you keep in mind that it puts us into a situation where it is impossible for us to ever satisfy 100% of our customers on a release. We do our best to get as close as possible. This is a tough industry, with thin margins. We hope that we can give you the models that you would like more often, than not.
Thank you for your support,
GHQ
Don't worry, we're big boys, and we can handle it, but please cut us a little slack. This is a rough business with thin margins. Everyone in the gaming business, including larger companies like Games Workshop, is pretty much limited to sales in small, niche stores and mail order. No one is doing huge runs of anything in the millions of units to sell at Wal-Mart. All of us have upfront costs in designs, mold making (we use a multi-stepped mold making process), etc. to get each model out. On top of that, many companies in the gaming industry are doing this all in First World countries, and are paying First World wages, not $0.25/hour.
We always understand that it is literally impossible to have 100% of the people happy about even a single release. Trust us, we know. The ship guys aren't excited about the armour releases, the WWII guys aren't excited about the Modern releases, the Napoleonic guys are excited about anything outside of their area, etc. We know that, and we can live with it. It's harder to deal with the negative feedback on the items that are really close to what people want. In a lot of cases the models that we put out fill a hole in the marketplace that has nothing else close to it. On this one does anyone else make a CV90? One that you are happy with? We really don't know if there is one out there, or not. Based on our customer feedback we decided to add it to our line. From the suggestions, we took our best shot at which one to do. Trust us, our intention is always to do the models/variants that we think that the largest number of people will want. The CV90 is currently used by about 7 countries, and all of them are not exactly the same.
We appreciate all of our customers, and understand that each of you has a unique opinion and can vote with your money. All that we ask is that you keep in mind that it puts us into a situation where it is impossible for us to ever satisfy 100% of our customers on a release. We do our best to get as close as possible. This is a tough industry, with thin margins. We hope that we can give you the models that you would like more often, than not.
Thank you for your support,
GHQ
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David F
- E5
- Posts: 108
- Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 4:39 am
- Location: North Carolina
GHQ,
Thanks for the input on the discussion. I can appreciate your being a small business in today's gaming market, and today's economic climate. I have known (or at least had passing conversations) with a handful of others in the marketplace (to include model railroading detailing accessories) and it is few who can make it more than just a sideline business or part-time, hobby pursuit.
I was just hoping for broader, post-cold war style action with the models rather than convoy, route clearance operations, or supporting limited, dismounted patrols. Yes, each of the countries that operate the CV90 series of vehicles has their own special "variation on a theme" and not always simply a turret swap.
If I could petition for a favor, please don't end with just the one variant being offered, and with that said, think the Finns with their CV9030FIN. The chances of a land war with the former Soviet Union is not that far off the reality scope!
David
Thanks for the input on the discussion. I can appreciate your being a small business in today's gaming market, and today's economic climate. I have known (or at least had passing conversations) with a handful of others in the marketplace (to include model railroading detailing accessories) and it is few who can make it more than just a sideline business or part-time, hobby pursuit.
I was just hoping for broader, post-cold war style action with the models rather than convoy, route clearance operations, or supporting limited, dismounted patrols. Yes, each of the countries that operate the CV90 series of vehicles has their own special "variation on a theme" and not always simply a turret swap.
If I could petition for a favor, please don't end with just the one variant being offered, and with that said, think the Finns with their CV9030FIN. The chances of a land war with the former Soviet Union is not that far off the reality scope!
David
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7.62
- E5
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I am very happy GHQ went with the CV90, even more so with the add on armour.
I think over time this will be a good solid seller for GHQ as real World orders are now pushing 1,200.
The armour upgrade is not that new, more than 8 years for sure. Some Countries probably had kits on hand much longer than that .
Since the 90's just about every conflict has seen the combatants big and small bolt on every bit of armour they had. Be that custom kits, rush orders of know systems or just DIY!
So in effect most modern MBT/IFV encounters will be with "up armoured" units.
You just don't see it on the training areas to save wear and tear. It also keeps the other side guessing.
I believe the armour for the Swedish 'S' tank was never issued or talked about until the type was retired but they had it!
I think over time this will be a good solid seller for GHQ as real World orders are now pushing 1,200.
The armour upgrade is not that new, more than 8 years for sure. Some Countries probably had kits on hand much longer than that .
Since the 90's just about every conflict has seen the combatants big and small bolt on every bit of armour they had. Be that custom kits, rush orders of know systems or just DIY!
So in effect most modern MBT/IFV encounters will be with "up armoured" units.
You just don't see it on the training areas to save wear and tear. It also keeps the other side guessing.
I believe the armour for the Swedish 'S' tank was never issued or talked about until the type was retired but they had it!
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chrisswim
- E5
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- Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:22 pm
- Location: Jacksonville, FL
GHQ,
Thank you, I am personally please with the CV90. My previous CV9040 have been from another company....well those are way too small. I took the turret off to put on a GHQ Roland hull...better. I have used MCV80 turrets on Roland hulls and Scorpion 90 turrets for my CV9040 vehicles and MCV80 turrets for CV9030; looks clean compared to the other company's CV90. Trying to kit bash for over a decade.
I appreciate your production of the vehicle. We all want our own desires met. Looking at the micro armor scale landscape: who else has added new products as GHQ with the high level to detail, quality and consistency of production?
So for the above, I am appreciative.
Thank you, I am personally please with the CV90. My previous CV9040 have been from another company....well those are way too small. I took the turret off to put on a GHQ Roland hull...better. I have used MCV80 turrets on Roland hulls and Scorpion 90 turrets for my CV9040 vehicles and MCV80 turrets for CV9030; looks clean compared to the other company's CV90. Trying to kit bash for over a decade.
I appreciate your production of the vehicle. We all want our own desires met. Looking at the micro armor scale landscape: who else has added new products as GHQ with the high level to detail, quality and consistency of production?
So for the above, I am appreciative.
Chris
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Ben
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- Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 2:42 am
- Location: Lehrte, Germany
Hi all,
I had some chat with GHQ on this one and I have to say that I am happy with the version they have chosen to make - the Strf 9040C. It is not (just from the look) my favourite variant but the best suited for wargaming.
The model looks very good at last.
Again, thanks for making these.
Kind regards,
Ben
I had some chat with GHQ on this one and I have to say that I am happy with the version they have chosen to make - the Strf 9040C. It is not (just from the look) my favourite variant but the best suited for wargaming.
The model looks very good at last.
Again, thanks for making these.
Kind regards,
Ben
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paul
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JasonAfrika
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AllenRockwell
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- Location: Palm Springs, CA USA
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I loved your response GHQ (Channing, I assume). You are right on. You will never satisfy everyone no matter how hard you try. This is a hobby full of very passionate people, some that are obsessed with the tiniest details and minutia ... and many,,, not so much. It really does take all kinds.
I think what some of us need to remind ourselves sometimes is that even though we sometimes think we are generals waging war against our opponents,,, we are usually just guys that refuse to grow up and we just want to play with our little tanks (speaking for myself at least)
And these are just game pieces, not 100% accurate museum quality models but rather very cool looking 3-dimentional game markers. Trust me fellas, nobody is actually going to die if we have to use a current CV90 to represent one from 10 years ago of a different variant. Hell, last month you were probably using M2 Bradleys to represent CV90s... so we are moving in the right direction anyways.
As long as your rules data reflect what it's really supposed to be, the piece on the table is just a placeholder ..... in the case of GHQs stuff, pretty damn amazing placeholders.
So, GHQ keep doing what you are doing. We all love it. And just know that no matter what you release, at least half of us will say "damn, I wish they would have made a ....."
PS, My CV9040s are with FedEx and on their way to me right now,,, I can't wait to get my hands on them.
I think what some of us need to remind ourselves sometimes is that even though we sometimes think we are generals waging war against our opponents,,, we are usually just guys that refuse to grow up and we just want to play with our little tanks (speaking for myself at least)
And these are just game pieces, not 100% accurate museum quality models but rather very cool looking 3-dimentional game markers. Trust me fellas, nobody is actually going to die if we have to use a current CV90 to represent one from 10 years ago of a different variant. Hell, last month you were probably using M2 Bradleys to represent CV90s... so we are moving in the right direction anyways.
As long as your rules data reflect what it's really supposed to be, the piece on the table is just a placeholder ..... in the case of GHQs stuff, pretty damn amazing placeholders.
So, GHQ keep doing what you are doing. We all love it. And just know that no matter what you release, at least half of us will say "damn, I wish they would have made a ....."
PS, My CV9040s are with FedEx and on their way to me right now,,, I can't wait to get my hands on them.
Allen Rockwell
Owner, GameCraft Miniatures
GHQ Fanatic since 1978
My Micro Armor Blog www.allensmicroarmor.com
Owner, GameCraft Miniatures
GHQ Fanatic since 1978
My Micro Armor Blog www.allensmicroarmor.com
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6mmWargamer
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Is it just me or does the Cv9040 look pretty much identical to the concept art for the British Army FRES SV project. Looks like the same number of road wheels, only difference I can make out is the "bulge" at the front of the hull. As far as I'm concerned great job GHQ. Here's a picture if your interested:
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av8rmongo
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Well they're BAE products right?
“It's a beautiful thing, the destruction of words.â€
― George Orwell, 1984
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
- George Orwell
http://av8rmongo.wordpress.com
― George Orwell, 1984
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
- George Orwell
http://av8rmongo.wordpress.com
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AllenRockwell
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- Location: Palm Springs, CA USA
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In case anyone cares, GHQ gets 10 points out of 10 points for dimensional accuracy on this model.
I measured the model and compared it to the dimensions of a full scale model and the accuracy is as close to perfect as you could expect.
________Full Scale__Should be in 285th____GHQs Model____Differnece
Length___257.875___0.904824561________0.8955________ -0.009324561
Width____122.047___0.428235088________0.4115________ -0.016735088
Height____106.299___0.372978947________0.3725________ -0.000478947
The length is off by 9 thousands of an inch (thickness of three pieces of paper) and that's without that little extension on the nose, if you add that extension it's over slightly over in length .... but I do not think the full scale dimensions take into account that extension. So if you average the with extension and without extension dimensions, it's pretty much perfect.
The width is a little hard to compare because I think when they give full scale width dimensions it's form the outside of the tracks ... not any extra armor added. So that's the way I measured the model,,, so it came out 16 thousandths under ... but as above, if you add the extra armor outside the tracks it comes out a little over but not an amount that anyone would notice. Again averaging the with extra armor and without extra armor dimensions, it's damn near perfect.
Height came out 1/2 of 1 thousandth of an inch short (or 4.7 tenthousandths of an inch),,, you don't get much closer than that.
These are all very tiny differences and I would call the model VERY SCALE. Well done GHQ.
I measured the model and compared it to the dimensions of a full scale model and the accuracy is as close to perfect as you could expect.
________Full Scale__Should be in 285th____GHQs Model____Differnece
Length___257.875___0.904824561________0.8955________ -0.009324561
Width____122.047___0.428235088________0.4115________ -0.016735088
Height____106.299___0.372978947________0.3725________ -0.000478947
The length is off by 9 thousands of an inch (thickness of three pieces of paper) and that's without that little extension on the nose, if you add that extension it's over slightly over in length .... but I do not think the full scale dimensions take into account that extension. So if you average the with extension and without extension dimensions, it's pretty much perfect.
The width is a little hard to compare because I think when they give full scale width dimensions it's form the outside of the tracks ... not any extra armor added. So that's the way I measured the model,,, so it came out 16 thousandths under ... but as above, if you add the extra armor outside the tracks it comes out a little over but not an amount that anyone would notice. Again averaging the with extra armor and without extra armor dimensions, it's damn near perfect.
Height came out 1/2 of 1 thousandth of an inch short (or 4.7 tenthousandths of an inch),,, you don't get much closer than that.
These are all very tiny differences and I would call the model VERY SCALE. Well done GHQ.
Allen Rockwell
Owner, GameCraft Miniatures
GHQ Fanatic since 1978
My Micro Armor Blog www.allensmicroarmor.com
Owner, GameCraft Miniatures
GHQ Fanatic since 1978
My Micro Armor Blog www.allensmicroarmor.com
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Ben
- E5
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- Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 2:42 am
- Location: Lehrte, Germany
Dear Allen,
if I got things right the measurements are in Inch.
I really like the model and I will buy some for sure but the measurements you posted do not match the real thing. We have a Strf 9040C (the uparmoured version) which is 275.59055 Inch long, 133.07087 Inch width and 109.05512 Inch high.
Data are taken from the FMV webpage:
http://www.fmv.se/Global/Dokument/Proje ... 09040C.pdf
The measurements you posted match the Strf 9040A and Strf 9040B (both versions are not uparmoured) with a slight distortion in width.
At last it is not bothering me and I like models on the smaller side.
Kind regards,
Benjamin
if I got things right the measurements are in Inch.
I really like the model and I will buy some for sure but the measurements you posted do not match the real thing. We have a Strf 9040C (the uparmoured version) which is 275.59055 Inch long, 133.07087 Inch width and 109.05512 Inch high.
Data are taken from the FMV webpage:
http://www.fmv.se/Global/Dokument/Proje ... 09040C.pdf
The measurements you posted match the Strf 9040A and Strf 9040B (both versions are not uparmoured) with a slight distortion in width.
At last it is not bothering me and I like models on the smaller side.
Kind regards,
Benjamin