With GHQ expanding their line, in this case adding vehicles for various middle eastern forces, is it time to 'go back' to the run some of these scenarios?
For example:
Egypt (M1A1 and EFIV (M113/25) for
Israel with Merkava IV, Namer, M113 Tamuz w./ATGM, UH60, AH64, AH-1 Cobras
Saudi Arabia with Leopard 2A7, T-90S, M1A2, M60A3, AMX-30B2, M2 Bradleys, AMX-10P, Euro Typhoons, F-15, Blackhawks, AH-64D Apaches.
Kuwait: M1A2, Desert Warrior (MCV-80 with LAV-25 turret), M84, BMP-3, BMP-2, M113, Saracen, Smerch, V-150, VBL.
Jordan with M1-S (M60 hull with M1A1 turret, Challenger 1, M113, YPR-765, Ratel, Hummv, Saxon, M901, M109, etc.
Syria:T-72, T-62, T-55, BMP, 1 & 2, BTR 50,60,70,80, BRDM, etc.
Turkey: Leopard 2A4, Leopard 1, M60, YPR-AIFV, V-150, etc.
We now have a variety of equipment to use and choose from. Then you can throw in NATO forces to fight or to enforce the peace.
What ideas do you have? Thank you for sharing your too.
Modern Mid-East Conflicts
Moderators: dnichols, GHQ, Mk 1
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chrisswim
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derry
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Yemen or Daesh
Late last year our group decided we want to play ultra-modern warfare, but not totally asymmetric. We looked at possible conflicts and decided Yemen would make a good theoretical conflict, with modern equipment, but without one side totally out-matching opponents with technology and/or doctrine. I mapped out Aden as a test case in 5 feet by 12 feet (6km x 14.4 km in our 100m per inch scale.) I also tested laid out maps for Al Mukalla and Al Ghaydah.
Yemen, with its large amount of modern equipment, multiple factions, and well equipped potential opponents/allies seemed like an ideal simulation opportunity. T-80BV tanks vs. modern tanks seemed interesting, as did the high motivation of the Yemeni people vs the lower motivation of probable opponents. We expected the Saudis to react to the rapidly moving events on the ground, and form some sort coalition that intervened in some way in the multi-faction contest that was evolving.
Because of the Saudi experience in Yemen in 2009, we did not predict direct Saudi involvement (the old King of Saudi Arabia was still alive in December 2014.) The current air war over Yemen, and no major ground invasion, has meant limited major ground battles. The inability of the Saudis to get Egyptian or Pakistani ground troops has held up major ground action.
The Battle for Aden has been in Khormakser, the airport, and surrounding neighborhoods, that were on the test map we made. But, the Battle for Aden in April did not involve dozens of tanks and other vehicles, which were the types of battles we desired to simulate.
Truthfully, the reality of the current humanitarian crisis in Yemen has made any gaming simulations much less appealing. Arabic and other news sources show deaths of real people and fighting affecting the lives of tens of millions of Yemenis. We are just gamers looking for interesting situations, not military staff. Right now Yemen is too current to have the dispassion and separation of time for our group to simulate.
So our group is in limbo while we resolve what to do. The Ogaden War of 1977-1978 seems like a possibility, but it does not use the latest military equipment that we have the minis for. Battles involving the Daesh (colloquially known as the Islamic State) make for opportunities to use all the equipment that chrisswim mentions above and has the chance for us to possibly leave out politics in our gaming simulations.
Our group has not yet found probable, current, or recent battles involving dozens of tanks on each side in anything but one-sided battles. Any suggestions from the board?
Yemen, with its large amount of modern equipment, multiple factions, and well equipped potential opponents/allies seemed like an ideal simulation opportunity. T-80BV tanks vs. modern tanks seemed interesting, as did the high motivation of the Yemeni people vs the lower motivation of probable opponents. We expected the Saudis to react to the rapidly moving events on the ground, and form some sort coalition that intervened in some way in the multi-faction contest that was evolving.
Because of the Saudi experience in Yemen in 2009, we did not predict direct Saudi involvement (the old King of Saudi Arabia was still alive in December 2014.) The current air war over Yemen, and no major ground invasion, has meant limited major ground battles. The inability of the Saudis to get Egyptian or Pakistani ground troops has held up major ground action.
The Battle for Aden has been in Khormakser, the airport, and surrounding neighborhoods, that were on the test map we made. But, the Battle for Aden in April did not involve dozens of tanks and other vehicles, which were the types of battles we desired to simulate.
Truthfully, the reality of the current humanitarian crisis in Yemen has made any gaming simulations much less appealing. Arabic and other news sources show deaths of real people and fighting affecting the lives of tens of millions of Yemenis. We are just gamers looking for interesting situations, not military staff. Right now Yemen is too current to have the dispassion and separation of time for our group to simulate.
So our group is in limbo while we resolve what to do. The Ogaden War of 1977-1978 seems like a possibility, but it does not use the latest military equipment that we have the minis for. Battles involving the Daesh (colloquially known as the Islamic State) make for opportunities to use all the equipment that chrisswim mentions above and has the chance for us to possibly leave out politics in our gaming simulations.
Our group has not yet found probable, current, or recent battles involving dozens of tanks on each side in anything but one-sided battles. Any suggestions from the board?
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bishnak
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There's definitely some great scenario fodder there.
Have a look at other Persian Gulf states too (UAE, Oman, etc) to add some more interesting options - LeClerc, Challenger, BMP-3 etc.
One of the very interesting things for me (purely from a scenario perspective) is the opportunity for modern western MBTs to face off: Merkava IV vs M1, M1 vs M1, Leclerc vs Challenger, Leopard II vs M1 or any other combo.
bish
Have a look at other Persian Gulf states too (UAE, Oman, etc) to add some more interesting options - LeClerc, Challenger, BMP-3 etc.
One of the very interesting things for me (purely from a scenario perspective) is the opportunity for modern western MBTs to face off: Merkava IV vs M1, M1 vs M1, Leclerc vs Challenger, Leopard II vs M1 or any other combo.
bish
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chrisswim
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Bishnik,
You hit the nail on the head, the scenario generation from the middle east with the modern NATO, Russian equipment provide some interesting match ups. Previously we had US, German, UK and French forces against each other in different war-game training scenarios.
So having Israel vs. Egypt or Saudi Arabia, etc. Thank you for the reminder on UAE and Orman.
So having 120mm firing at another tank with 120mm is great. Also, now that the US and NATO and other forces around the world have served in the middle east, can have other options to game. Australia vs. Egypt, Canada *Leopard 1 or Leopard 2A6) vs. Jordan (M1-S or Challenge 1).
What other scenario would you recommend? We need to have a great game this summer. Thank you
You hit the nail on the head, the scenario generation from the middle east with the modern NATO, Russian equipment provide some interesting match ups. Previously we had US, German, UK and French forces against each other in different war-game training scenarios.
So having Israel vs. Egypt or Saudi Arabia, etc. Thank you for the reminder on UAE and Orman.
So having 120mm firing at another tank with 120mm is great. Also, now that the US and NATO and other forces around the world have served in the middle east, can have other options to game. Australia vs. Egypt, Canada *Leopard 1 or Leopard 2A6) vs. Jordan (M1-S or Challenge 1).
What other scenario would you recommend? We need to have a great game this summer. Thank you
Chris
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whoa Mohamed
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HobbyDr
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Yeah, you're right, but it was all Bundeswehr equipment.whoa Mohamed wrote:Hey buddy that was a unified Germany so the corps fought its way to the sea the toughest battles were against former east germans...Mikey
Back to the original topic, if I wanted to portray Syrian or Egyptian troops, should I use the Soviet miniatures painted appropriately?
Don
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bishnak
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From a *purely theoretical* point of view, a current day re-fight of Sinai using Egyptian / Israeli ORBATs from 1973 would make an interesting game. Merkava IVs and Namers vs M1A1s would be interesting...chrisswim wrote:Bishnik,
You hit the nail on the head, the scenario generation from the middle east with the modern NATO, Russian equipment provide some interesting match ups. Previously we had US, German, UK and French forces against each other in different war-game training scenarios.
So having Israel vs. Egypt or Saudi Arabia, etc. Thank you for the reminder on UAE and Orman.
So having 120mm firing at another tank with 120mm is great. Also, now that the US and NATO and other forces around the world have served in the middle east, can have other options to game. Australia vs. Egypt, Canada *Leopard 1 or Leopard 2A6) vs. Jordan (M1-S or Challenge 1).
What other scenario would you recommend? We need to have a great game this summer. Thank you