Gamer Versus Collector

Extra Crispy · Post by **Extra Crispy** » Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:59 am

The new "lobby for a new item" thread got me really interested in an old question: how many GHQ customers are collectors (primarily) and how many are gamers (primarily)?

A lot of "wanted" items, especially in moderns, have no real place in gaming, unless as on objective in some highly unusual scenario (artillery, missile launchers, various engineering and supply vehicles, etc.).

I know a number of members here are not gamers, but I'd love to know what the split it.

For me if it won;t be in a game I won;t ever buy one.....

Hoth_902 · Post by **Hoth_902** » Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:34 am

Paul,

I am a middle of the road guy. I collect and Play with the pieces I purchase. Currently I collect more than I play, but it will not remain so for long. I love buying support vehicles and long range artillery even if they have limited to no use in a game. Plan to make some dioramas at some point. Maybe a couple of motor pools to display both pieces I do and don't use.

sneaky pete · Post by **sneaky pete** » Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:53 pm

I have yet to get into gaming. I originally bought for "playing" with my younger brother in our youth after seeing them at an "Armor expo" at Ft Knox, Ky. They were so cool so we bought some to roll across the carpet and destroy each other.
Then bought a few sets for terrain models of my own for work. Changed jobs and they sat in a box collecting dust. I began to buy again to create some armies to game and have some bonding time with my son. Two opposing armies has turned into 9 different ones (90's US, Russian, Iraqi... WW2 US, German West front, German East Front, Soviets.... 1967 Arab army, Israel) Each composing about a Battalion size strength mix of armor and infantry.

Long story short, always had the idea to use them for game/play, but still like to collect the odd cool looking ones.

Dan

piersyf · Post by **piersyf** » Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:08 pm

I think saying artillery has no real place in gaming is a bit of a stretch. I don't game much these days, but what I have is brigade sized tactical groups than I can form realistic teams from to game anything from company to, well, brigade. I prefer to play campaign games, so logistics, repairs and medical all play a role. I find the games that come from campaigns to be far more interesting than points based battles, but you have to have the equipment to use it in-game.

CG2 · Post by **CG2** » Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:57 pm

I think there is a clear difference between 'skirmish' games and 'campaign' games. In the latter, everything becomes relevant whether it's logistics, medical, political etc.

piersyf · Post by **piersyf** » Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:11 pm

Exactly. Which kinda makes the initial distinction between gamer and collector hard to quantify. I only buy what would be useful in my type of game. That includes supply, medical, tech support, signals intercept, radar, the lot. But it is all for 'gaming'.

chatto · Post by **chatto** » Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:46 pm

I find I LOVE having artillery in my games.

Is it 100% accurate to have artillery so close that after a turn or two it can be targeted? Of course not!?

Is it cool to have it on the table when gaming? Hell yes it is

Whether it is running with Team Yankee rules *where artillery is on table*, or Fistful Of TOWS or some other game system where artillery is some overarching concept *where even then I will have them offside as a side objective for any enemy SF/ deep strike elements*, I'll put my arty on the table

Whether you game it like a TY game, or run it so intrinsically down to the 'nth minutiae' that you have to make sure you have individual sleeping bags for each one of your troops and vehicle crews - if you enjoy the models and the way you use them - You're using them right!

panzergator · Post by **panzergator** » Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:09 am

I collect only. The object is to build US and NATO battalions and Soviet/Russian regiments.

Most of my attention is directed at NATO. I have Soviet Motorized Division (tank bn, BMP bn, and 2 btr bns) plus an independent tank bn (51 tanks), and other odds and ends. Have the arty and ADA to go with 'em.

NATO includes 9 tank bns and 6 mech bns, 2 armored cavalry squadrons, 2 155SP bns, MLRS bty, 2 M110A2 btys, an ad hoc engineer bn, and an ADA bn of 4 Vulcan btys. Additionally, there are companies which may or may not become battalions, including M60, M48A5, M48A2, M47, M41, M103A2, and M551. Battalions are organized as H or J series MTOE and painted according to the camo of their era. I have a lot of holes to fill in some of those bns. Also have a Brit armoured infantry bn reinforced by two Challenger 1(I) squadrons and a recon squadron, a German panzer bn, and a French ad hoc bn.

Painting and collecting have taken a back seat to other projects around the house these days, but I hope to get back to it soon.

pmskaar · Post by **pmskaar** » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:27 am

I too am more middle of the road here. I both game and collect.

I collect lots of GHQ vehicles and infantry. I have a large collection of World War II of most of the nations GHQ makes except for Japan. This includes infantry, artillery, tanks, and other vehicles as well as aircraft. I do intend to use a lot of it for gaming although some of it may or may not see any actual action on the table but I buy it because I think it is cool.

My modern interests lie mostly in Cold War and Arab-Israeli with some Vietnam. I have a fair amount of Russian stuff right now with some American and just started collecting some British and West German vehicles. I have some Israeli as well. None of this is actually painted yet except for 5 M60A3s that my good friend Begemot painted for me. I intend to get some of these painted in the new year to do FFOT-3.

I am not a collector in the sense of creating whole unit TO&Es in micro armor at 1 to 1 scale but I do buy some support and artillery pieces which may never actually be used in a game but which I like anyway. You never know, there may be a scenario or campaign where they come into play at some future point.

I also collect a lot of the 1/2400 scale ships and plan to do some gaming with them in the future.

dragon6 · Post by **dragon6** » Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:08 am

piersyf wrote:I only buy what would be useful in my type of game. That includes supply, medical, tech support, signals intercept, radar, the lot. But it is all for 'gaming'.

They are on table? If so aren't they only objectives as Extra Crispy wrote? I mean I can see a scenario with support units fighting a desperate rear guard action to let the logistic/headquarters units escape. This happened many times on the Eastern Front so could make a good game

pmskaar · Post by **pmskaar** » Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:09 am

I ran a game like this several years ago. The Germans were fighting to slow the Russians down in order to let the HQ and support vehicles escape. It was a great way to use some of those vehicles that are not present in most games but were important to the logistical effort.

In my game, the Germans had 2 or 3 truck columns that came on at random times and locations so neither side could really plan exactly how to protect or eliminate them. It made for a tense and exciting game.

You could do the same with an artillery battery that suddenly finds itself a bit too close to the front as well.

Pete

piersyf · Post by **piersyf** » Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:14 pm

dragon6 wrote:
piersyf wrote:I only buy what would be useful in my type of game. That includes supply, medical, tech support, signals intercept, radar, the lot. But it is all for 'gaming'.
They are on table? If so aren't they only objectives as Extra Crispy wrote? I mean I can see a scenario with support units fighting a desperate rear guard action to let the logistic/headquarters units escape. This happened many times on the Eastern Front so could make a good game

Two answers; even if the artillery is off table, you have to have the models (by my rules).
for campaign games, that's why I play them. One campaign I played I won for one main reason; I managed to get a platoon behind the front line and resupplied it by air. They caused so much havoc with my opponent's supply lines he used up a significant part of his main force trying to find my platoon, which meant he had fragmented his units. My main forces rolled most of it up pretty quick.

With campaigns you get game scenarios that you could never dream up because one player would say it was unfair, because usually, they are unbalanced. The point is, how do you play those situations. These are the real fun for me, hence my antipathy towards points based battles.

paul · Post by **paul** » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:37 pm

We also require the individual to have the miniature.

scopemaster · Post by **scopemaster** » Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:50 pm

Hi, I am/was middle of road guy, when I started gaming in the 1970' you wanted to use 10 trucks or a missle laucher you had to a. have the model painted based and clearly represented you could not say this is not a tiger but it is an E.B.R AC but you had to represent the acual model or a close conversion, also Our friday night group has a dude who scratch built the interior of a m-10 was for an entire platoon in 1-1 scale WRG rules. so I wound up playing and collecting , Big Plus it's all cool stuff.

Extra Crispy · Post by **Extra Crispy** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:04 am

Piers:

What rules do you use for those games?

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