Austrain TO&E

jwbolen · Post by **jwbolen** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:52 am

Looking at putting together a modern Aussie Arm. Cav. Rgt. Gotten as far as it has 1 company each of M1A1 , M113A4 and LAVs. I have not found how the companies are organized. Any help would be welcomed. One of the articles I did find made it sound like the 113s were to transport infantry from the two infantry Bns in the Brigade

John Secker · Post by **John Secker** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:56 am

Can we assume the title should read "Australian" rather than "Austrian"?

jwbolen · Post by **jwbolen** » Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:39 am

Meant Australian. Plead caffeine shortage while typing.

av8rmongo · Post by **av8rmongo** » Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:27 pm

Have you tried MicroMark Army Lists? The guy who makes these is a member of this forum. You can usually find something close in his collection which can be found on Wargame Vault. Each list is just $1.39 for a .pdf download.

edit:
I just bought the Australian Infantry Brigade list and it has a Cav Regt but only up to 1997. No tanks listed.

But... It did have this little gem:
1 x 3t Beer Trailer towed by UNIMOG

Way to go Australia!

piersyf · Post by **piersyf** » Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:06 pm

The OP's organisation of 1 squadron each of M1, M113 and LAV is the new Bersheeba organisation begun in (I think) 2015. Only half the army has been re-organised along these linesso far, completion of the re-org due in 2017. The Australian army are very reluctant to give detailed TO@E's, and I doubt even the US army (which is very forthcoming with such info) would give detailed organisational tables that are still in the process of being rolled out. There are suggestions that the squadrons have had some reorganising, but the biggest unknown is the HQ squadron.

jwbolen · Post by **jwbolen** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:56 am

I know it is a work in progress. I am guessing about 12 to 16 M11s based on the total buy being 59 split between 3 companies and a training unit. the same or a few ore LAVs , Couple of the on line items sounded like the 113s were to transport the infantry of the other Bns. in the Brigade and others hinted f was like a mech, inf. company. so that could be anywhere from a dozen to two dozen
If anyone has better guesses I would like to see them.

It can't be as bad as trying to guess where the US army is headed with scout Plts.

jwbolen · Post by **jwbolen** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:59 am

was referring to M1a1 not M11s. One of these days I will get this typing deal right

piersyf · Post by **piersyf** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:16 am

If you'll settle for some older figures, a squadron of tanks is 14 vehicles (3 troops of 4 and 2 in HQ) and a squadron of M113's is 42 vehicles (each troop is meant to lift a company). Roughly 11 APC's per troop plus 4 in support troop (mortar section usually), rest in HQ.

jwbolen · Post by **jwbolen** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:51 am

Since you are there, have you seen anything on the 113 company in the new arrangement that would tend to show if it is still a taxi (transport) or a tactical unit.? If transport that big number makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the information..

piersyf · Post by **piersyf** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:15 am

My (limited) understanding of the Beersheba model is that an infantry battalion can be attached to the cav regiment. Considering they are forming 3 brigades and each is to have 2 infantry battalions, it makes sense to have the Cav regiment capable of 'lifting' one of those battalions. Normal design for APC squadrons is that they can lift the core fighting elements of a battalion in one go.

Note that in the past, 2 cav has been extremely successful at using the M113 as a recon vehicle carrying fire teams rather than squad/sections.

Near as I can find, the ASLAV squadron has 26 LAV's.
2 bushmasters and 2 command in SHQ,
3 troops each with 4 bushmasters and 2 APC types (and 2 dismount fire teams of 4 men)
Support troop with 1 bushmaster, 1 ambulance, 1 ASLAV fitter vehicle (crane), 1 ASLAV recovery (winch).

It's possible the Cav M113 squadrons would follow the ASLAV organisation (26 rather than 42), but given that there is no separate APC squadron allocated to the Brigades under Beersheba, I would bet on being battle taxis (so 42).

chatto · Post by **chatto** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:46 am

I know this doesn't provide a direct answer, but I hope you find it useful.

http://dtrmagazine.com/wp-content/uploa ... lement.pdf

I DO have a copy of expected force numbers on my other PC, but that is in storage.

For comparison, recon vehicles are likely to remain six per troop... our current ASLAV Org is two ASLAV-PC and four ASLAV-25 per troop.

chatto · Post by **chatto** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:47 am

As for M-113s, they will remain a battle bus and nothing more, they are simply too poorly armoured to be out in the field in direct combat!

OBe · Post by **OBe** » Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:51 am

Hey Fella's
As an ex-bucket-commander, I can offer some advice.
Tank SQN's are indeed 14 vehicles - 1 x 2-veh command grip and 3 x 4-veh troops.
Cav orbat from Chatto looks about right, except for nomenclature - I assume he meant 'bushmaster' to be the 25mm LAV variants, not the PMV (essentially an armoured unimog.....)
M113AS4's are only used by the mechanised infantry nowadays, as Cav replaced all of theirs (old variant with T-50 turret) with LAV's in the late-90's or slightly later. The old variants have all been upgraded to the new AS4 model now. Infantry companies are 14 strong, similar to the Tank SQN above. No idea on how they incorporate the Support Company with mortars, SFMG's and A/T platoons.
We have taken a lot of concepts from the USMC in regard to parcelling out units into small battle groups.
Hope that helps.

bishnak · Post by **bishnak** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:11 am

The powerpoint slide titled "1 Armoured Regiment after Beersheba" at this link is not a bad pictorial representation of the new organization:

https://ausmilitary.com/forums/viewtopi ... 58#_thread

1 Armoured Regiment is one of the three "Armoured Cavalry Regiments" formed out of the Australian Army's "Plan Beersheba" (a restructure amongst other things). Each of the three Combat Brigades has an ACR within it. 1 Armd Regt is the ACR for the 1st Brigade.

As the pics show, the three main combat sub-units of the ACR are:
1. MBT Squadron (Company)
2. Cavalry Sqadron
3. APC or "Lift" Squadron

The tanks are M1A1 AIM SA. There are 14x MBTs in the Squadron (HQ plus 3x Troops of 4 tanks each). These are for fighting with the Cav Sqn, or attachment to the battalion(s) of the Brigade.

The Cav Squadron currently uses ASLAV in various variants - 'Gun LAVs' with 25mm cannon, and LAV PCs with no turret for carrying scouts. There is also an ASLAV-S (S for Surveillance), which is a specialized variant of LAV PC with a mast and ISR sensors. The ASLAVs (all variants) are to be replaced by 2020 under the LAND 400 project, which is buying the new "Combat Reconnaissance Vehicle" in its first phase. Two vehicles have currently been down-selected to the field trials stage of the process - they are Boxer with a "Lance" turret (similar to Puma IFV turret, but manned) and the AMV with a CV9035 turret on it.

The APC squadron is designed to lift one of the Brigade's infantry battalions. The other battalion of the Brigade (or other two battalions in the 3rd Brigade) are transported in Bushmaster PMVs.

As you'll see on the slide, the ACR also has HQ and Logistics vehicles.

Austrain TO&E

Austrain TO&E

correction ment Austrailian

Aussie arm CAV Rgts

correction

makes sense