1970s Armored Cav Regiment

militumman74 · Post by **militumman74** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:55 am

I'm wanting to model in micro armor an Armored cav squadron circa 1976, as in 2nd or 11th ACR (maybe 3rd too). But I'm not sure of the organization. Been looking on line and find nothing from this period.

As I recall, a standard tank company with 17 M60A1 or M60A3, and ???? support vehicles.

Howitzer Battery with 6 M109 A1? (tubes were not as long as on the later versions, but I don't think as short as the basic M109) and ??? support vehicles esp ammo carriers, and FOs and FIST? (was there a FIST vehicles back then?). How Batteries were integral to the Squadrons, not as a Battalion at regiment.

3 Cav Troops, each with 3 platoons of either 6 Sheridans and 4 M113s OR 4 Sheridans and 6 M113s - cant remember which vehicle was 6 and which was 4. I think some/all the 113s were the cav version.

And some ??? Troop support/command? vehicles. Don't know what was in the Troop HQ - or if the troop commander had a Sheridan or not as in the tank company (where there were 2 tanks in Coy HQ).

Squadron HQ with ?????. Some M577 cmd/staff tracks in there somewhere.and a bunch of jeeps and M35 2 1/2 ton trucks.
maybe 3 M88 recovery vehicles and maybe some engineer vehicles - bridge tanks, maybe CEVs, but maybe these attached from regimental engineer company.
Helos were at regiment, but don't know what they had. AH-1s, and OH-58s, prolly some UH-1H? or D.

Anybody out there who can help me fill in the blanks? Forgive me, its been 40 years and some brain cells have died.

panzergator · Post by **panzergator** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:21 am

I have temporarily mis-located (LOST) my ST 17-2 from my AOAC course (1978) which covered this time period. As soon as I find it, I will be back up and post it.

militumman74 · Post by **militumman74** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:47 am

Thanks, I look forward to it.

redleg · Post by **redleg** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:37 am

I don't know if these will be useful to you, but I have seen an article on mechanized reconnaissance that mentioned the ACRs during the cod war:
http://www.academia.edu/1916061/U.S._Ar ... e_Cold_War

There is also FM 17-35 (Armored Cavalry Platoon, Troop, and Squadron) dated February 1960. I downloaded a free copy of it recently from www.survivalebooks.com

-Mike

redleg · Post by **redleg** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:37 am

I don't know if these will be useful to you, but I have seen an article on mechanized reconnaissance that mentioned the ACRs during the cod war:
http://www.academia.edu/1916061/U.S._Ar ... e_Cold_War

There is also FM 17-35 (Armored Cavalry Platoon, Troop, and Squadron) dated February 1960. I downloaded a free copy of it recently from www.survivalebooks.com

-Mike

panzergator · Post by **panzergator** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:30 am

OK, I FOUND IT! I have done this one one-to-one with GHQ stuff, combat vehicles only, no wheels.

This is from Student Text 17-1-1, Armor Reference Data, Volume II, Non-Divisional Organizations, US Army Armor School, Fort Knox, KY, 1978-1979 (but it covers the years you asked about)

This is a modified TO&E SPECIFICALLY for the armored cavalry units in Germany because of their covering force mission. Divisional cavalry units are different. And I believe that 3rd ACR, which would arrive from the States in an emergency, was equipped as standard ACR, which was two scout sections and a "tank" section of 3 M551s (we were taught in AOB to NEVER refer to a Sheridan as a "tank," lest less-educated folks tend to think it should be USED as a tank. An M551 was an Armored Reconnaissance, Airborne Assault Vehicle. Also, this reference was for instructional purposes only and not to be taken as gospel regarding what one would find when one arrived at a regiment in Germany.

Squadron Headquarters and Headquarters Section:
2 M151s one for the Sqn Cdr and the other for the S3.
1 M113 for the Sqn Cdr
1 M35w/trlr
4 M577s (XO, S3Air, S2, S4/S1)
1 M561
Headquarters Troop Headquarters
2 M151 (Trp Cdr, Motor Sgt
1 M561
3 M35 2 1/2T
1 M816 5T Wrecker
Medical Plt
1 M577
2 M792 (M561 modified)
3 M113 (Ambulance)
AVLB Section
3 AVLB
Redeye Section (ADA)
7 M151
Squadron Support Platoon
1 M151 (Plt Lder)
2 M35 2 1/2T trucks
Transportation Section
26 M813 5T truck
9 M813 5T Truck w/Fuel Unit
Squadron Communication Plt
1 M151
1 M561
1 M577
Squadron Maintenance Section
Vehicle Maintenance Section
1 M151 (SMO)
1 M561
4 2 1/2 T Trucks w/TRLR
1 M816 5T Wrecker
1 M578
1 M88

Armored Cavalry Troop (3 per squadron)
Troop Headquarters Section
2 M151 (Cdr, XO)
1 M35 2 1/2T Truck w/TRLR
1 M577
Ground Surveillance Radar Section
3 M113
Maintenance Section
1 M151
1 M113
1 M578
Mess Team
1 M35 2 1/2T Truck w/wtr trlr
Armored Cavalry Platoon (3 per troop)
6 M551 (3 reconnaissance sections, two ARAAVs each)
2 M113 (Scout section)
1 M107 (106mm Mortar carrier)

Tank Company
Headquarters Section
2 M151 (Trp Cdr, XO)
2 M60A1
1 M35 2 1/2T Truck w/trlr
1 M577
Maintenance Section
1 M151
1 M113 w/trlr
1 M88
1 M35 2 1/2T Truck w/wtr trlr (mess team)
Tank Platoon (3)
5 M60A1

Howitzer Battery
Battery Headquarters
1 M151 (Bty CDR)
3 M35 2 1/2T Trucks
1 M578
Battery Detail
1 M151 (Survey officer)
2 M561
1 M880
Firing Battery Headquarters
1 M561 (Bty XO)
1 M577
Howitzer Sections
6 M109 (or M109A1, which arrived in country late 1970s)
6 M548
Ammunition Section
4 M813 5T Truck w/ammo trlr
Special Wpns Section
1 M561
2 M35 2 1/2T Truck
Forward Observer Section
3 M151

I have added a Vulcan platoon and an Engineer platoon with two CEVs and 4 M113s to my squadron, as well, although coverage would be difficult for the Vulcans, as widely dispersed as deployment likely would be.

Please understand that there may have been further modifications in the field. ACRs were not known for strict adherence to regs and I KNOW there were some extra vehicles around for "convenience."

militumman74 · Post by **militumman74** » Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:10 pm

Wow, thanks a ton Panzergator. exactly what I was looking for, in total.

I thought I remembered the 3rd ACR having M60s at Fort Bliss in 1975, so I thought very similarly equipped as the ones in Germany. No one else there would have had tanks then.

But since they would prolly deploy to Germany in a crisis I guess they might have been lighter for air transport.

Also thanks to everyone else who provided info.

panzergator · Post by **panzergator** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:29 am

Militumman (Soldier Man - someone has been reading Roman history, I believe)

Can't say for sure about 3rd ACR. I seem to recall that they would be equipped with Sheridans in the configuration I spoke of earlier, which would be similar to the divisional squadrons, but may include a tank company. They would draw equipment from pre-stocks as in Reforger (if they weren't already radioactive), but the crews would not be trained to suddenly convert to the 7th Army MTOE with the additional M551s. During the transition from H series to J series TOE, the ACRs replaced Sheridans with M60A3s, going to platoons with a tank section of 4 tanks and a scout section of 4 M113s, but that didn't start until around 1980. In this configuration, the platoon leader had his own track, giving the platoon a total of five. In the H series MTOE with 6 Sheridans, the platoon leader was in an M551. As an armored cavalry regiment, 3ACR would have had 3 tank companies, which is likely what you remember. .

panzergator · Post by **panzergator** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:34 am

Oh, yeah, about the "Blues," the Mech squad that was a part of cavalry platoons - those folks were converted to help crew the additional M551s. I don't remember when the Blues platoon was deleted from the divisional platoons, if they were. My reference shows they were still there.

I have one troop of the H series divisional squadron, with ambitions for the remainder of the squadron in the future, along with a J series ACR squadron. The H series squadron will have 2 troops with M113 scout sections and 1 troop with M114 scout sections, depicting the squadron in transition.

I am also trying to confirm my memory that the two-troop J series divisional squadron was reinforced with an additional troop for 1st Gulf.

Modeling units is what I do with GHQ, so I am always looking for TOE info. You are right, it can be a challenge to formulate just the correct search parameters to elicit the info. My references are limited to my periods of service. I am trying to get this ST scanned so I can make it available to others, but going is slow.

panzergator · Post by **panzergator** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 1:02 am

Militumman,

When you get around to the painting of this squadron, it would be in the USAREUR camo pattern of sand, green, red-brown, and black up until 1977, when everyone in Germany started to apply the MERDC of medium green, brown, black, and sand. Sand was in short supply, so often it was left out.

militumman74 · Post by **militumman74** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 1:36 am

I've had a hard time finding paint patterns for the 7th Army scheme, roughly 75-79, at least ones that match my recollection of that desert-like camo (! in central Europe - I always thought that was funny.) Wish I had copied the bulletin that defined it. Best resource seems to be the Tankograd Reforger 69-78 booklet. Around that time also saw some solid forest green vehicles, including some tanks from German based battalions (i.e. not prepositioned stock).

The later version of MERDEC European color schemes I've seen put out by BF for Team Yankee look nothing like anything I remember from 70s, 80s or 90s. way too brown or orange and not green enough. The solid green was very dark, even when faded.

av8rmongo · Post by **av8rmongo** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:21 am

Do you mean something like this:

http://www.panzerbaer.de/colours/a_rela ... m551-a.htm

panzergator · Post by **panzergator** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:55 am

AV8Rmongo,

THAT'S THE ONE! That is the USAREUR camo pattern. I think it was used early to mid-70s. We picked up our M60A2s in July, 1975 and they were dressed in dark olive green. As I recall, we first applied bumper numbers in white, then switched to black. Only the new MERDC black was available first, and we applied some of that to the tanks. I left the battalion before anything else was done, but I've seen later pics of 1-32s A2s in full MERDC (maybe minus the sand).. The M60A2s in 1-32 never wore the USAREUR pattern. Also, there were plenty of vehicles that didn't have the green in the USAREUR pattern, just the sand, brown, and black. We started applying the MERDC pattern in 3-32AR (M60A1 RISE/AOS) in Fall, 1977. It's probably easier to apply the USAREUR than the MERDC. I never saw much of a discernable pattern in the USAREUR pattern.

As point of information, canvas was not supposed to be painted. It was seen in some units occasionally, but the guidance was pretty specific. DON'T! Don't know what the guidance is these days.

I think the 11th ACR always had one or two olive green Sheridans in their squadrons.

You can search on things like "M60A1 tanks in Germany 1970s" and find pics.

Prior to the USAREUR pattern, just the normal dark olive green overall was used. If you use that pattern, you will likely have 14th or 2nd ACR. 14th ACR was reflagged as the 11th ACR after the 11th returned from Vietnam. You can find out about that by searching on the regiments. You will also find pics there, as well as by searching on "USAREUR."

That is a good website, by the way. Tank you!

panzergator · Post by **panzergator** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:25 am

Militumman,

Funny thing about that USAREUR camouflage... After an hour or so in the field, collecting dust and dirt, that paint developed an easily-seen sheen that reflected sunlight very well. You can see several pics on the internet of tanks in a tree line and it was very easy to pick them out. I always thought the conventional wisdom rang too true. "A camouflaged tank looks just like a camouflaged tank." They might as well have left them dark olive green.