GHQ Models Forums

Looking at the photo online http://www.ghqmodels.com/store/usn10.html Labeled as Gridley/Craven. Cant be as photo shows enclosed aft gun mounts, which the Gridleys did not have. the model also has 2 twin 40mm mounts, again Gridleys did not have. I think USN10 is actually a Benham.

I think USN79 http://www.ghqmodels.com/store/usn79.html Labeled as a Benham is actually a Bagley as it has the aft mounts are not enclosed and it appears to have a 40mm mounted on the aft deck house. (which the Gridleys would not have received).

So are just the photos used incorrect or are the models in each pack incorrect?

USN78 http://www.ghqmodels.com/store/usn78.html listed a Bagley looks to be the Gridley. No 40mm installed 6x20mm and all 4 banks of TTs

Problem here is that the entire group of destroyers in that series were sort of variants of each other - almost a "fleet of samples" (a la, the French fleet of around 1900).

There were only 4 Gridleys, 8 Bagley's and 10 Benhams built.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gridley-class_destroyer

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagley-class_destroyer

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benham-class_destroyer

All of them underwent some level of refit before the war and additional changes were made during the war. Some were built with open mounts aft and then had them shielded and so on...

In general, the Bagley, Gridley, and Benham classes were very similar. In all three classes there were significant changes in the armament in the early part of WWII, in particular increased anti-aircraft armament. There are two characteristics, however, that allow definite identification (assuming the illustration is clear enough).

The Gridley class, uniquely among US destroyers of this era, never received 40 mm Bofors (because of significant topweight concerns).

The Bagley class had very large trunking about the funnel - visibly larger than that in the Gridley or Benham classes.

Based on these considerations, I can definitely identify USN78 as Bagley class.

I cannot be as certain about USN10 and USN79. From the catalog photos I cannot be certain that either does or does not have 40 mm guns and I do not have access to my actual figures at this time. The appearance of the aft pair of 5" guns is suggestive but not definitive. None of these classes had enclosed mounts in this location, but I have several photographs of Benham class ships with partially-enclosed mounts with canvas covers that make them look like enclosed mounts. None of the Gridley photos in my collection show these semi-enclosed mounts.

Assuming hussar62 is correct about USN10 having two twin 40 mm mounts, then this definitely is not Gridley and most probably represents the Benham class.

My opinion:
- USN10 is Benham class rather than Gridley.
- USN 78 is Bagley class, as labeled.
- USN 79 is Gridley class rather than Benham.

Interestingly about two months ago I made a thorough investigation of the same question. Using my extensive collection of WWII warship books as well as online sources, I looked at photographs of all of the ships of these three classes. I came to the following conclusion:
These three classes can be distinguished from one another based entirely on their funnel shapes.

Bagley class ships have a broad (fore and aft) but thin funnel with the most prominent trunking of the three.

Benham class ships have a narrower (fore and aft) funnel than the other two classes with trunking smaller than the Bagleys.

Gridley class ships have a funnel similar to Bagleys with small trunking like the Benhams.

Therefore, in my opinion, GHQ has correctly labeled all three models:
USN 10 is Gridley class.
USN 78 is Bagley class.
USN 79 is Benham class.

Michael

If anyone is interested I posted 3 articles over on the Micronaut Only Thread (page 75) detailing the principal modifications the Gridley, Bagley and Benham classes went through. If you read those you can see why there would be confusion about which model represents which ship.

Michael

If I remember correctly, USN10 Gridley used to be carried as Craven. This was several years ago.

Also, what is now listed as IJN Yugumo was carried as the Kagero years ago as well.

Pete

Michael,

Thanks for the in-depth reply on the topic on the micronaughts thread. Looks like we are both using some of the same resources but coming to a bit different conclusions on this model.

I do agree that USN78 is a Bagley, can definitely tell by the large trunk for the funnel.

USN10 on the other hand I still can't see as a Gridley. I have the model in front of me it has 2 x twin 40mm mounts on the aft deck house (and I put my magnifying head set on to be sure). Based on Conways 1922-1946 it states Gridleys never had 40mm installed.

destroyerhistory.org also states the same with the following quote from the Gridley page:

"they remained the only goldplaters in which the Navy never dared fit with 40mm Bofors due to the topweight penalty "

Conways under the Benham class states:

"all surviving units received a pair of twin 40mm aft as well as 4 20mm" (did not give a date when that started) this is exactly the AA fit of USN10

The other clue for identification (for me) are those aft 5" mounts. In reviewing all the Gridley photos on the sites we both seem to use I cant find any of the Gridleys with aft enclosed mounts. I did find a photo of Craven on destoyerhistory.org from March 45 in the Atlantic showing the aft mounts still open.

Also based on what I think to be true, the aft mountings on both Gidley and Bagley class could not be enclosed as they were pedestal mounted and therefore the ammo was passed to them via gun crew shelter. The Benhams on the other hand had their aft 5" ring mounted with the ammo feed to the gun from the deck below, which allowed for them to be enclosed.

From destoryerhistory.org:

Gridley:
Main gun battery: 4 x dual purpose 5-inch/38 caliber guns: 2 forward in enclosed base ring mounts; 2 aft in open pedestal mounts.

Bagley:
Main gun battery: 4 x dual purpose 5-inch/38 caliber guns: 2 forward in enclosed base ring mounts; 2 aft in open pedestal mounts.

Benham:
Main gun battery: 4 x dual purpose 5-inch/38 caliber guns: 2 forward in enclosed base ring mounts; 2 aft in open base ring mounts.

To me this points to USN10 being a Benham

USN79 I still think is Gridley, but to your point could be a early Benham prior to the additional AA installed or the aft mounts receiving enclosures.

As you also point out most of these ships in the 3 classes had multiple refits and their appearance could change from one month to the next.

Enjoy the discussion