GHQ Models Forums

Hey Gang

It is my understanding that American vehicles in North Africa arrived with the star insignia color in yellow.

I also thought that at some point in the North African campaign they transitioned to the white star.

Can someone tell me when that occurred during the campaign? I am also interested to know when the American flags on vehicles were discontinued as well.

I am interested to do American vehicles for Tunisia to add to my British and German North Africa units. Any assistance on this will be appreciated.

Thanks

Pete

pmskaar wrote: Can someone tell me when that occurred during the campaign? I am also interested to know when the American flags on vehicles were discontinued as well.

Hi Pete:

I too have an abiding interest in the US Army campaigns in French North Africa. I will be interested to see what information others can provide to this question.

My own investigations have provided me with a muddled picture. This is how I understand it:

- Instructions for the use of yellow stars on turret sides were issued by the Armored Force in January 1942. Note: this was from the Armored Force. The rest of the US Army was already in the process of settling on white stars.

- In August of 1942, prior to Torch, the Armored Force issued instructions for using white stars. But that does not mean everything got repainted immediately.

- Most of the tanks in the UK had white stars. Most of the tanks in the US got yellow stars in early 1942. Those coming to Torch from the US usually were not repainted to the August instruction prior to the November Torch landings. So these came ashore with yellow stars.

- I don't know where they came from, but at least one (could be more) GHQ medium battalion (ie: infantry support battalion) of M3 Lee tanks landed with the yellow stars, and still had them through the Tunisian campaign. I've seen color video of them in transit from Algeria to Tunisia with yellow stars, and pics of them in Bizerte or Tunis at the end of the campaign, still with yellow stars.

- Often, in both the white and yellow variants, there was a 4 inch bar encircling the turret (matched in color to the star). The circle / broken circle around the star only started to appear later, and was not seen in French North Africa.

- Non-tank vehicles usually had white stars. But in the 2nd Armored Division (from the US, landing in Morocco) halftracks sometimes had yellow stars. I think. Not sure on this.

I think most of the color (or colorized?) pics and videos I've seen of the Torch landings show yellow stars still in place. I've seen not only the M3 Lees, but also M3 and M5 Stuarts, all with yellow stars. I can't recall seeing a pic from Torch or after of M4 Shermans with yellow stars, but I expect those in the 2nd Armored Divsion (Western Task Force, from the US) landed with yellow stars.

For my own wargaming force, I have painted my US tanks that are limited to French North Africa with yellow stars -- meaning my M3A1 Stuarts and my M3 Lees. Tanks that are also suitable for Sicily and subsequent campaigns, such as M5 Stuarts or early M4A1 Shermans, get white stars. The early M4A1 Shermans, which are really not appropriate for ETO, get white stars with bars. The M5s, which can serve right up through the end of the war, get the stars but not the bars.

At least that's how I've approached it. Will be interested in other replies.

-Mark

Hi Mark

Thanks for the good info. I do look to you as a good source for this kind of stuff and I appreciate that you give your best guess when the facts may be a bit murky.
I will probably do most of my vehicles with white stars but may do some with yellow at some point.

My biggest interest lies in the Tunisian campaign but I might be tempted to do some battles between the Americans and Vichy French at some point.

Do you know when the American flags painted on vehicle sides went away? I would think probably after Torch but I really don't know.

Thanks again!

Pete

pmskaar wrote: Do you know when the American flags painted on vehicle sides went away? I would think probably after Torch but I really don't know.

I have never really looked in to that question.

I know the American flag was painted ON specifically to allow the French to identify the invaders as Americans during Torch. It was (reasonably) assumed that the French would be less likely to resist American forces than British forces.

Hardly seems to have mattered, though. The French resisted in almost all cases were they were under command control. I have read of a few cases where sentries or patrols or isolated detachments came into contact with American forces during Torch. It seems like it was a mixed bag as to whether they fought or simply said hello and proceeded on their way. Even in the same area the results seem to have been mixed.

The Oran area landings provide some interesting examples. I've read for example that the landings at Mersa-bou-Zedjar met with a patrol of a single squad of French soldiers, who offered greetings and helped unload the various landing craft. Then just a couple hours later, when enough vehicles had been unloaded and brought across the beach, the whole inland movement was stalled by a patrol of a single French armored car who demonstrated a bit of initiative in fighting and got away scott free after.

But that only tells the story of when and why they put the US Flag emblems ON. This purpose, to dissuade the French from fighting, was certainly not a valid reason to keep them in place against the Germans and the Italians. But when they were actually removed, vs. when there was no further reason to have them on, I can not say.

-Mark

Hi Mark

I knew that the flags painted on the vehicle sides were for Torch to aid in identification. I was wondering when these were deleted, painted over, or just kept through the duration of the Tunisian campaign.

I have seen some pictures with these flags on the vehicles but don't know when and where the photos were actually taken.

Thanks again for your insights into this.

Pete

I cannot say for certain, but, aside from yellow being Armor branch color, yellow could also appear very dark in old black and white film, which may have helped against enemy air photo recon.