Fireball's gripe - Review M577w/extension and M60A2

[panzergator]

Ok, Bud, I'll take the challenge for a review, but I have reservations about it.

First, the M577 w/track extension. The one made isn't the one I know. The only pics I have been able to find of something SIMILAR that are REAL are one of an M113 in Vietnam with a round crew tent rigged up at the back and an FV432 with some kind of canvas extension. The only pic I have found on line of one similar to the GHQ product is one of a 15mm M577 with that extension. In a couple of other threads, folks have told me that form of extension exists and I don't doubt them, but I can't find any pics of real ones like that on line. I remain open-minded, but this one does not suit my requirements, so I'm not buying any. I want the one I know, and there are plenty of pics on line of that one - in use - in the 70s and 80s.

Second, the M60A2. Boy, am I glad to see that one back. I haven't ordered any yet because I'm still recovering from this year's first quarter college tuition, room, and board for No.3 son. That makes me nervous about too much commentary, but I did have an M60A2 platoon and we drew them brand new. They served about 5 years. Mine were in 1-32 Armor in Friedberg (3rd BDE, 3AD). I liked the original GHQ model and thought it was a real close resemblance. There are a couple of things that bother me about the new one, but they are small. FIRST, the model has a travel lock. That's the thing at the end of the back deck in the center. The travel lock was to keep the 105mm gun from straining the internal turret race lock and breaking loose during movement when the gun was not in use, like when it was on a train car, or static in the motor pool, or traveling down the road in peacetime, say, in a convoy on the autobahn. The 152mm gun was not even long enough to REACH the travel lock, so there wasn't any on the M60A2. It's a minor point and I imagine that GHQ is using the same hull that they use for the A1 to save them from the additional expense of a different hull. I don't mind and if it does bother me, I'll cut 'em off. SECOND, the main gun is wrong. It would have been simpler to model this one with the later gun, without the bore evacuator. The bore evacuator was initially supposed to clear the gun of caseless cartridge residue, but during testing, it was found inadequate to the job, so the closed breech scavenger system was installed in the rear hull. The closed breech scavenger system blew three blasts of air into the breech immediately after the gun was fired to blow caseless ammo residue from the barrel to prevent it from igniting the next round. On the initial production batches, the holes in the gun barrels were welded shut and the bore evacuators welded on (had they remained in service, they would have had to be removed periodically for cleaning and would not have been welded). Later models did not have the holes for the bore evacuator in the barrels and so did not have the bore evacuator, either. THIRD, I don't know if the hull has the bulge at the bottom rear that was added to house the Closed Breech Scavenger System, since I don't have any new models yet, but I assume that GHQ chose to ignore that little detail in favor of using the same hull as the A1. I get that, and am fine with it. FOURTH, putting the bore evacuator aside, the gun still doesn't look right - too thick, bore evacuator is not the correct length, the reinforcing ring at the business end is too thick. FIFTH, that cupola does not look like it is proportioned correctly - too big, too high, and the 50 cal is too thick. LAST, we drew our tanks brand new at Vilseck in Germany. We spent a couple days processing them in the motor pool before doing anything else. Among those things was installing top-loading air cleaners (no hinge on the sides) and the infantry phone on a bracket off the side of the rear hull ABOVE the fender (previous installation was ON the fender). I'll pass on the infantry phone, but both A1s and A2s had the top loading air cleaners. I will have to trim the hinges off. These were the FLAT top loaders, not the ones with the slant front seen on the M60A3. Some A2s received the later top loading air cleaners with the slant front as they proceeded in service and I have seen pics of that. Those criticisms aside, I am glad to see this beast back, and I will strive to build another 54-tank battalion.

For those gaming the A2, the Shillalegh missile had a theoretical range of 3000 meters, with practical limitations of the optics - it was damned hard to see that target at 3000 meters. Minimum range was 1000 meters. The basic load was 13 missiles. After that, it was conventional ammunition, with only HEAT issued, that I know of. The maximum effective range of the conventional round was 1500 meters. At 1500 meters, you are pretty decisively engaged and it is a hard, fast fight, not helped by the cycle time of the automatic screwing in and out of the breech! Average intervisibility (distance between terrain features) in the Fulda Gap area was 1500 meters. The firing system could be dodgy - electronics in tanks was new in 1975 (well, I the tanks were finished several years earlier, but that's when we got'em). The 50 cal had to be mounted upside down in the cupola. There was an M219 7.62 coax to the left of the main gun. The tank had a high profile, partially off-set by the small frontal aspect of the turret shape. From the side, it was just a slab of steel, no ballistic slope.

The laser rangefinder provided three readouts and the gunner or the tank commander selected the one he deemed best (put that into your die roll!), which was automatically fed into the digital computer when you pressed the selector, which then provided the super-elevation for the conventional round. The missile required no super elevation. My FAVORITE feature, aside from the power cupola itself, was the target designate system, which enabled me to lay the 50 cal on a main gun target and flip a switch. The main gun would automatically align with my 50 cal, at which point, I could turn the final lay over to the gunner while I looked for a new target or engaged a 50 cal target. There were four smoke grenade launchers on each side of the turret nestled in the forward portion of the turret basket. Each barrel was loaded with 2 grenades. Reloads were carried in a box inside the turret.

During the time I was in Friedberg, we were organized under the H series TOE; 5 tanks per platoon, 3 platoons plus 2 tanks in the hq section per company (17 total). Three companies per battalion, plus 3 tanks in the bn hq section, for a total of 54 tanks. We also had 10 M113A1 scouts, 4 M107aA1 4.2in mortar carriers, 6 Redeye teams mounted in M15A1s, and two AVLBs, all organized in Combat Support Company. The medics had 3 M113A1 ambulances and an M792. Tank company maintenance sections had an M113A1, an M561, and an M88. Combat Support had the same, except an M578 recovery vehicle. They may have had an M816 wrecker, I don't remember. There were two M88s, an M578, and an M816 in the battalion maintenance section. There were 5 M577s, 1 each assigned to S-2, S-3, S-1/4, the mortars, and the medics. There were a lot of M151s, M35s, M813s to haul stuff, along with cargo and fuel service GOERs. HHC Maintenance had a GOER wrecker. The GOERs were a great idea, but bad news operationally.

The M60A2 was recognized as a temperamental beast even before we got 'em. The maintenance officer, maintenance warrant both went through additional schooling before assignment and all platoon leaders were SUPPOSED to be first lieutenants with experience. There was an M60A2 add-on at the end of Armor Officer Basic for those expected to go to A2 units (I was not afforded that opportunity, although by the time I got to Germany I was a 1LT)

Our mission was the same as A1 tank units, although, if there was time, we would thicken the covering force (Sheridan-equipped), adding our long-range capability to that of 11th ACR. There were two A2 battalions in 3AD. The other unit, 3-33AR, was in 1st BDE at Kirchgons. I don't know what its mission was.

When I get to it, I will replace the main guns and 50 cals with brass rod. I will see if the Dremel can grind off the travel locks and air cleaner hinges.

[panzergator]

A little bit more on the M577. IN MY EXPERIENCE (and others may have different experience), when the extension was set up, the rear ramp was either opened, with the ramp resting on the ground at an angle or resting on a couple ammunition crates to keep it level. Occasionally, there was a field desk set up on the level, open ramp that controlled access to the interior of the track. The remainder of the space inside the extension was work space and used according to a plan or catch-as-catch-can according to the whim of the TOC officer. I do not recall ever seeing the extension used with the ramp kept closed and the door used for access to the track. With the ramp down in either configuration, the extension used for the GHQ model would provide no work space other than that on the ramp because the ramp would occupy all of the additional space provided by that abbreviated extension.

That said, I was always leary of the TOC palaces set up by combining the extensions of 3-plus tracks to make a large work space and briefing area. It seemed like too easy a target, what with large heat signatures provided by the tracks and generators running and staff personnel all over the place. At Fort Polk, we experimented with digging in the tracks in large trenches, (in the summer, with a MOPP event, which almost killed us from heat stroke). I tried setting up the TOC with 4 M577s, no extensions, spread out on a knoll, tied in by wire, with a minimum use of generators and engines. Not a satisfactory solution. A hq is just a very vulnerable command and communications node, easily detectable by various means. It's a good target to include in any game.

[redleg]

Funny that you mention the TOC “palaceâ€￾. I was in Tikrit in 2004 and our brigade TOC really was a palace. We set up in a big dining room and we cut holes into the walls to back the M577s into!

My experience with FDCs and battalion TOCs was that they tended to be pretty austere, but at higher echelons they got a little carried away. When I was on 1ID staff in Germany I went to the V Corps main CP for a briefing and they had a giant popcorn machine inside the CP. And this was out at Hohenfels!

[panzergator]

Yeah, I heard there was a popcorn machine at V Corps in the field, too. The most outrageous thing I encountered was at Ft. Polk. After a tour in Germany, where tank gunnery was serious religion, I could not believe he was serious when my bn cdr tasked me with setting up a TV in the 577 track extension across from the gunnery range so he could WATCH A FOOTBALL GAME! As HHC CDR, I simply ignored it, as that kind of thing was just not in my DNA, so he had his bn maintenance tech set it up. Any division CDR in Germany would have had the guy tied to a downrange target and offered the TV as a prize to the gunners. But Ft. Polk was a long way from Germany, in more ways than one. I expected the brigade commander to fire him on the spot, but he was an Infantry guy and just chuckled and moved on.

[panzergator]

GHQ, I would be very happy if you would issue just the (original, 1970s-1980s) track extension without the vehicles. Then you could do the 5-pack and we could use them with the command tracks we already have. Should you do it this, a careful sculpt of the end which attaches to the vehicle to ensure the light seal is in order. Separate canvas doors that can be installed or left out would be nice.