GHQ Models Forums

sneaky pete and I agree; August is the month to paint and post pictures of anti-tank weapons of any sort. This might include anything from an infantryman with an anti-tank grenade, anti-tank guns, anti-tank missiles, self-propelled anti-tank guns, (I suppose even most tanks themselves), up to aircraft such as the A-10.

Don S.

OK, I'll bite.

But it may not be the bite you were expecting...





See, when you play Romanians, you may not get all the kit you want for anti-tank work.

And so here we see one of my Romanian tank hunters (Vanatori) sections. Romanian infantry platoons organized specific small teams for AT defense, which made use of whatever weapons they could lay hands upon. Sometimes that mean Panzerfausts, sometimes it meant captured Russian AT rifles, and sometimes it just meant molotov cocktails and other improvised devices.

In my case, my Vanatori have managed to lay hands upon some tellermines. I have 3 teams, one for each of my Romanian infantry companies. The infantry are all GHQ Romanian figures. The Vanatori are kit-bashed from the grenadier figures. The stick grenade is clipped off, the arm is carefully bent to a carrying vs. a throwing position, and the tellermine (actually a front wheel from a GHQ MiG-27 Jet) is glued in place.

The actual tank hunter is accompanied by an SMG-armed "lookout". This was the typical team make-up ... at least as I have read.

Let's go find us some tanks!

Not exactly what I expected, Mk 1, but definitely in the spirit.

Don S.

Mk1 - you have great in depth knowledge, thanks for sharing. What did the Hungarians do for AT units? How would I model/game these Hungarian units?

BurtWolf wrote:What did the Hungarians do for AT units? How would I model/game these Hungarian units?

Can't claim to know very much about the Hungarians. I haven't read at much depth, so my comments come with caveats. But here is what I understand...

When they first marched into Russia in 1942, their primary AT gun was the German 37mm Pak 36. This gun is easily found in the GHQ German list, and the good news is that the uniforms and helmets are enough alike that no one will doubt you if you use German figures for the gun crews. During their battles around Voronezh in the winter of 1942/43, the Hungarians were evidently dis-abused of the notion that this was a useful gun, while at the same time the Germans were somewhat dis-abused of the notion that the Hungarians were useful front-line troops (!).

(This sounds like a criticism of the Hungarian army, and in fact it is. They turned in better performances later in the war, but their initial performance was not good at all. Many issues seem to have come together ... lack of modern equipment was one, but they also had an army drawn from several poorly-integrated territorial acquisitions, and taking conscripts with low motivation to begin with, who don't speak the same language as the officers, and plunking them down in the middle of a Russian winter without proper weapons or good shelter -- well it's not a recipe for good morale and top performance.)

They seem to have moved away from the Pak 36, but they didn't get much ahead in the process. Their primary replacement, as far as I can tell, was the Belgian 47mm M1931 gun. Unhappily I don't know of anyone who makes this in our scale. The Belgian gun can be seen here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/47_mm_Mod ... i-tank_gun

They may have used the Czech-built Skoda 47mm gun, too (available in our host's Hungarian line), i don't know. I have found several references to 47mm guns, and several references Skoda guns in Hungarian artillery units, but I don't recall ever seeing a reference to a Skoda 47mm AT gun in Hungarian service.

The Hungarians also used a fair number of 50mm Pak 38 guns, perhaps receiving them from German stocks or inventories as the Germans replaced them with the 75mm Pak 40 in their own service. This would probably be about the best available to a Hungarian infantry unit in the mid-war period. These too are easily available from GHQ.

The GHQ Hungarian infantry support weapons packs do seem to include an AT Rifle, and to my eye it appears to be a Solothurn 20mm AT Rifle. If so, this is a very good choice. It's the right weapon for the company-level AT defense in the early through mid-war.

By late war they started to get more current German kit. So panzerfausts and maybe even panzershreks should start to show up, and perhaps some 75mm Pak 40s (available from GHQ Germans). I have not seen references to Hungarians receiving 75mm Pak 97/38s, but I would not be surprised to find out some were taken into service, as both the Italians and particularly the Romanians seem to have acquired a fair number of these from their dealings with the Germans.

In the late war period even the Hungarian Nimrod (available from GHQ Hungarian line) should be considered an AT weapon. Personally I find this quite interesting. It was, to all accounts, an entirely competent vehicle, mounting a Bofors 40mm auto canon in a fully tracked platform. Designed for AA use (at which it did quite well), it seems the Hungarians also considered it a viable AT weapon as well (which ... well ... you might have some difficulty demonstrating on the game table depending on what rules you use).

That's about all I've got. Maybe someone else has more, and can add to the discussion. I'd be interested to see it.

BurtWolf:
Mk1 has gotten most of it.
I can confirm the Solothurn 20mm,
This was a standard; I would have to dig to see if it was locally made; It's possible.
Also, I can confirm German Pak 36, 38, and Pak 40. Also Pak 97/38.
There was also a license made version of the Pak 36, but in 40mm caliber.

Some Bohler/Breda 47mm guns were used by mountain troops.
In the few photos I've seen, they were drawn by a single horse, using trail extensions.
They were accompanied by a similarly drawn ammo cart.
In addition to the Belgian 47mm guns, Germany also supplied Skoda 37mm guns.
The Skoda 47mm is a "sore point" with me-
I have NEVER seen any credible source for this, and I've looked a lot
(I don't count an article in a cold-war era wargames mag.)
In the past, I've had access to Hungarian language material, and- nothing.
(My Hungarian relatives are now deceased)

Hungary did receive both the Panzerfaust and Panzerschreck.
They also produced their own version of the "Schreck", though the caliber was different.
There was also a powerful "Faust" style weapon, though It was larger, and usually used an MG mount. A twin version existed. I don't know how much use it saw.
I have also seen at least two photos of the Pupchen in Hungarian service.

I may have missed something, but I can't think what right now. Maybe too much Saki...
I would recommend the books "Magyar Warriors" as the best English source on the subject; the first two volumes are available, if a bit pricey. I'm still waiting for the third.
Sorry for typos and lack of detail, but I'm recovering from eye surgery, so looking things up is a bit difficult at the moment.
EDIT-
Concerning the Skoda "47"- While its no evidence of the ATG in Hungarian service, I just stumbled across a photo of a German Jagdpanzer variant ; the Skoda 47mm on a French R35 chassis- stated to be in service with Hungarian troops.
I've never seen reference to it before, so must wonder if it might have anything to do with the idea they used the guns...?

Scotia makes it. No photo but I have some modern Soviet artillery I bought in the '80s and am amazed at the quality now I am getting to painting it.

ES0006 - 47mm FRC A/T Gun

I have some older BRDM 2/sagger's that are in need of paint so count me in.
May also have a few GHQ kit bash that may qualify if I can find the time to paint too.

I don’t have much in the way of dedicated anti-tank systems, but here is an M901 ITV. I use them for M981 FIST-Vs, but since this is anti-tank August I can make an exception.


Here is another anti-tank system. It’s difficult to see in tis picture, but the crew is ramming a Copperhead round which will be fired in a few moments to kill a tank!

Got a couple of ADATS, M10 Achilles, Sherman Firefly's and that SP Artillery version of the RAM tank (some how that tanks name gets censored).

Milan



I gave my eyes a hard time on some troops again (have 14 Milan stands).
The BRDM's have a base coat but I could not commit on a camo for them yet, plans keep changing.

What was Sep't again?

Cheers.

For September, I suggested engineering vehicles and heavy tanks. I suppose this should also include engineering personnel.
For engineering vehicles I would include recovery vehicles, repair vehicles, tanks with mine clearing attachments, bridging vehicles, armored plows, etc.
For heavy tanks I would include the British infantry tanks, up-armored Shermans, Tortoise, T95, obviously the Tiger and ISU series, with all their variants, etc.

Alternately, sneaky pete suggested ships and boats for September.

I had ships separately, with September and October months for escorts and submarines.

Take your pick.
Don S.