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Incidentally, Chris, M1s carrying 120mm guns, as well as Leo II series, carry smoothbore guns. British Challenger carries a rifled gun. NATO rounds cannot be used in Challenger and vice versa.

panzergator wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:19 am

Incidentally, Chris, M1s carrying 120mm guns, as well as Leo II series, carry smoothbore guns. British Challenger carries a rifled gun. NATO rounds cannot be used in Challenger and vice versa.

Complicating the intended benefit of commonality in equipment and weapons within / between the NATO forces.

Even thought through by the Soviets. Correct me on the next two where I am wrong but that was supposedly why they went with a .51 cal machine gun. They could feed captured NATO .50 cal through it but NATO could not do the reverse. Not an armorer but I would imagine that that would have a negative effect on barrel wear at some point. That would require them to match the chamber and casing to ours though. However, in a pinch, it beats out running out before the other side. I am less sure about mortar ammo. Years ago, never mind how many, someone told me the Soviets did the same with mortars. They went with an 82mm to be able to use captured NATO 81mm ammo but again we could not reverse the process.

*****As the song goes: "Though the truth may vary this..."(Monsters & Men / Little Talks)*****

Brigade Commander - FYI: the Soviets had the 82mm mortar in their inventory as far back as 1937 and it saw extensive service in WW2. This caliber of mortar has been used by the Soviets/Russians since then. NATO was created in 1949, so it is probably safe to say that using NATO ammo was not a factor in the design/adoption decisions.


Begemot

NATO smoothbore gun in use.
Abrams, Ariete, Leopard 2, LeClerc. The Brits were going to convert to SB, I do not recall if they did give up the rifled L30.
As I recall, the SKorean K1, K2 can use NATO. Ammo along with Japanese Type 90 and 10.

Just a small side bet.
The new British MBT will be 120 +- up dated Chally 2 with Rheinmetall 120 mm smoothbore gun and some kind of active "Hard kill" defence.

LeClerc THEORETICALLY can fire NATO 120mm rounds, but carries only French-designed ammunition.

The Improved Challenger made the longest target hit in First Gulf. Don't remember how far it was, though it was very impressive. You have to have very goid optics, a very good gun, a very good gunner, and a very good adjustment of EVERYTHING. The Brits are professional enougg to do it, too.

Begemot wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:22 pm

Brigade Commander - FYI: the Soviets had the 82mm mortar in their inventory as far back as 1937 and it saw extensive service in WW2. This caliber of mortar has been used by the Soviets/Russians since then. NATO was created in 1949, so it is probably safe to say that using NATO ammo was not a factor in the design/adoption decisions.


Begemot

So, the truth DID vary this. I will relegate that one to the Urban Myths & Legends folder. Thank you Begemot.

The Challenger shot was 6000m as I recall.
The French gun GIAT 120.

Regarding the next British tank... That is really up in the air. The Brits only field two active armored brigades, both with only one (battalion-sized) armored regiment, each of 56 tanks. Likely, each platoon of four has one in storage. I have read articles concerning restrictions on ammunition as they aren't making any more of it.

Challenger II is an excellent product, as was Improved Challenger I, and I would advocate buying their surplus but for lack of spares. Production lines are closed. They are currently cannibalizing stored vehicles to keep the active units going. It is a sorry state of affairs likely to get worse in the wake of Brexit.

I think we should look at training US crews on Leos, as the Germans have plenty they are not using, to help with getting tanks in action in a hurry for emergencies. Might help the POMCUS challenge.

Yesterday’s painting, it’s freezing out side, so I watch college Bball.

Camouflage patterns of MERDC, Aussie camo, and 3-tone NATO.



Swap out turrets on LVTP-7A1. Received these 2 Fuchs from a part-time ally, part-time opponent.

Chris, for MERDC, the sand and black do not travel together.

I know that they don’t all the time, but when my sand is toooooo wide, I cover with some black. I don’t mind a bit too much black being muted visually. I will cut back on future MERDC.
Thank you for the insight.

Looking good, Chris!

Fuchs







I do need to paint the LMGs.