M60 Tanks

[panzergator]

MERDC came into use the latter half of 1976 and early 1977. Our tanks, in 3-32 Armor, at the time were M60A1 (RISE/AOS - Reliabilaty-Improved, Servicabiliry-Enhanced/Add-on Stabilization). Part of that package included smoke grenade launchers, but we only had the mounting plates. We were still awaiting the launchers. The battalion was organized under H series. I left to return Stateside in mid'78. I THINK the battalions went to an interim J series when they were issued M60A3s. M60A3s still wore MERDC in 1983 when I got back, this time to 2nd BDE, 8th ID. As BDE S4, I was managing transition to J series throughout 1983, and 3AD was farther along in transition than we were. I think 2-68AR of 2nd BDE was the last unit to get M1s and that wasn't until 1989, so you have a long window for MERDC. M60A1s were probably gone by '83, although that's A guess.

[mike robel]

In about 1982 when I commanded my first company, we had 17 tanks. In 1984-86 when I commanded my 2nd and 3rd, we had 14. The paint for us was the NATO 4 color camouflage of Brown, Green, Sand, and Black in all cases. The first two were at Fort Riley, the 3rd was in Germany. When the battalion transitioned to IPM1, my memory is it was still the same color scheme.

[panzergator]

Sorry, I failed to answer your question. I don't think there was a 14-tank M60A1 company. For one thing, the timing is off, unless there was an odd circumstance. Part of it has to do with the tank's effectiveness. The M60A3 and M1 were much more effective than the M60A1. That enabled platoon strength to drop to 4 and the surplus to add almost an extra company, providing more maneuver companies. At the same time, MERDC came along before the transition to J series and the NATO scheme was established and standardized after the M60A1 was the Standard A tank.

In short, put your MERDC on 17-tank company. 14-tank companies will be medium green M60A3s. You may find M1/105mm gun tanks in MERDC, however.

[mike robel]

In 1984, battalions in Fort Riley had M60A1s and were 14 tanks. And, my memory for both there and in Europe in the period 1980-1987 were NATO standard Brown, Green, Sand, and Black.

In 1977-79 11th ACR was in NATO four color and my 17 tank tank company @FRK in 1981-1982 was as well.

[panzergator]

Mike, what you are calling NATO four color was MERDC. What 1st Inf was running for tanks, when, is out if my area, but that's why I expect you to chime in. The NATO scheme came along in the 80s at some point and is only 3 colors, green, brown, and black. The switch to J series was chaotic. I was 2nd brigade S4 in 8th ID in 1983. We dropped one mech battalion and changed/exchanged, turned in, and drew a lot of stuff. The mech battalions went to 4 line companies about that time.

The replacement of tanks in units was very dynamic. It depended on a cycle of issue, turn-in, rebuild, reissue, or replace with new. This was a time when M60A1s, M60A2s, M60A3s, and M1s and IPM1s were all in play. When you got different tanks depended on when your stuff was scheduled to wear out, what was available, and what your priority was. In 3-32AR, M60A1s were replaced with A3s in '79. The A2s in our sister bn next door were so troublesome that they were replaced with used A1s while they waited for A3s or M1s. I don't know which they got. By then, I was at Fort Polk with 5th Mech. We had A1s there, and they were DOGS! Painted in MERDC, but Forest green, light green, tan, and black. 5th Mech was 16th of 16 divisions on the DA Master Priority List. H series, 17 tanks per.

If you paint 3AD, it's forest green, brown, and black. We didn't have tan. 2-68 Armor didn't turn in their M60A3s until 1989, and they were wearing MERDC, with tan. A3s were delivered in medium green. Units were expected to paint the other colors. When we painted our tanks MERDC in '76-'77, they were A1s, not new, and had the USAREUR MASSTER camo, which was UGLEEE.

Mike's timing and duty stations were different from mine, so you can see how just a few differences affected your perception.

[panzergator]

Mike's experience is different than mine, but it appears to me you can choose either 17 or 14 for your MERDC-coated M60A1s. I'm very surprised that the Premier infantry division in the Army took so long to repLace its A1s. I didn't get to Riley until 1990. By then, I saw only M1s in the motor pools. The Kansas National Guard had A3s.

[redleg]

Thanks for all the great info, fellas. I think I'll go with 14-tank companies for my MERDC M60A1s, at least to start. Since there is so much variation and flexibility I'm making this decision based solely on finances since I will need to buy another pack of tanks to get that 17-tank company. First I'll try to get that MERDC paint job down though.

For the M60A3s I'm going with plain old green since my own experience with them is with all green vehicles. That was back in the early to mid 90s in the California National Guard. You may have seen one of our tanks on the news rampaging through San Diego back in 1995!

[panzergator]

I guess Mike has been talking about 1st ID (FWD) in Germany, while I have been talking about 1st ID (Main) at Ft. Riley.

[mike robel]

Mike, who has been in both places was talking about both.

1981 - 1982 (or so). I commanded 17 M60A1s in C/1-34 AR/1st BDE
1983 (late) - 1984. I commanded 14 M60A1s in A/4-37 AR/2nd BDE (actually, there were only 13 because everyone was shorted some to help stock POMCUS).
From 1984 - 1985 I commanded 14 M60A3s in C/2-37 AR/3rd BDE (1st ID(F))
All these at the time, once again, as I remember, were painted the same. Green, Brown, Sand, and Black.
in late 1985/1986 2-37AR converted from M60A3 to IPM1. As I said before, we were supposed to get the first M1A1s, but got IPM1s.
in 1990, when I returned to the G3, the Division had M1s and shipped them to Saudi Arabia. I don't really remember what color they were, but brown and green were predominate. We painted them sand/tan.
2nd Brigade, as I remember, converted to M1A1 in Saudi Arabia, while 1st Brigade converted after the war. They remained the sand while I was there.

[panzergator]

Interesting, Mike. I thought A1s were out of the system by '82, what with A3s and M1s coming on line, seemingly so quickly. I was testing the M1 driver's thermal viewer in '81 in 64th Armor in Schweinfurt, so it seemed logical that everyone had A3s or M1s overseas. Back to the books for more research.

[mike robel]

well, to go back a bit further, when I was in Fulda 77-80, my best friend from high school, Tom McDonald was in, I think 1-64 in Schweinfurt. His platoon at the time had three M60A1 and 2 M60s until they converted to M60A2.

[panzergator]

Yes, during my tour 75-78, it was common to see both needle-nosed A1s and early M60s mixed in units.

[panzergator]

Thanks, Fireball. Very considerate of you. I actually arrived in 1-32 Armor in July of 1975. B Company had just finished their receipt of M60A2s in Vilseck Training Center. My company, A, was next. We flew down from Friedberg in a personnel box slung under a Sky crane helicopter ( I would have GREATLY preferred the train or even the back of a deuce-and-a-half). We were the second company to get 'em. After four weeks at Vilseck we road marched to Hohenfels for tactical training, and after three months in country, I could look for a place to live.

The site is inaccurate. 1st and 3rd Armored Divisions each had 2 battalions of A2s. 3rd ID and 8th ID each had one, for A total of 6 in USAREUR. I understand 3rd ID cross I attached so that each armor battalion had 2 companies of A1s and a company of A2s. I don't know if this was done on alert or permanently. The way support ran, it would have been easier to keep them all in one battalion (for parts demand history, turret mechanics, and all kinds of stuff) and cross - attach to go to the field.

Donn Starry commanded V Corps during my tour. He hated 'em. They couldn't shoot fast enough and they were a maintenance nightmare. Those of us who crewed 'em felt the same way, although they were new for the time I had A platoon and weren't too bad.

[redleg]

Wait.....you guys just threw a wrench into my understanding of M60 tanks! I'm aware of M60A1s, M60A2s, and M60A3s....I did not know that M60s were ever fielded. How did they differ from the M60A1?

[panzergator]

M60 was fielded beginning about 1960. It had an elliptical turret SIMILAR to BUT NOT THE SAME as the M48. The M60 turret was a little higher, flat across the top, with the flat surface extending farther back, the bustle falling away more steeply. Front slope in a wedge rather than a boat shape. Hull had only a single shock absorber at front behind the compensating idler. A second was added on the A1 to help with the additional weight of the needle-nose turret.

GHQ used to have them for sale, but discontinued them quite some time ago. I'm looking for some.