M60 Tanks

[panzergator]

I believe all the M60A1s fielded by the Marines in First Gulf had add-on armor. The barrel jackets COULD have been added anyway, so GHQ's model CAN work. The Army sent one or two units with A3s, but no add-on armor, including 197th Infantry Brigade (M), which had one M60A3 tank bn - no add-on armor). I think most were turned in for M1A1s in-country. I THINK the Marines had upgraded their A1s to RISE/PASSIVE standards, which added the grenade launchers too, so the only inaccuracy you have to deal with in the GHQ model is the barrel jacket.

Clipping off the searchlight is simple. I have considered relocating mine to a more accurate position on the mantlet. The searchlights were not clamped to the barrel. The tremor in my left hand, my primary, and my inability to focus adequately at the moment, is holding me up. I think the eyes are fixable and that is in progress, not so much the tremor.

The Israeli reactive armor was different from the American one. It was a seies of bricks of different sizes. I'm surprised it's been passed up. '70s era.

[Hoth_902]

So you are saying that the M60A1 that the marines fielded, because of the add on armor, would look exactly the same as the GHQ M60A3 accept for the barrel jacket. Am I following what you said? So what I would want and will probably not get because its such a small difference is and M60A3 with a barrel that does not have a thermal jacket on it.

As for the search light, I knew it was positioned at the Mantle.. its funny because the Mantle has the attachments molded in but the put the Search light in the wrong spot. LOL. More Research is necessary.

I will probably buy a company of GHQs M60A1s and figured using them search light or not. Maybe I should order a pack to determine if I feel I can clip the search light. I figured removing it would be easy, just making sure it looks right where it was attached is what I was worried about.

[panzergator]

Yep. There are minor details for a full-blown M60A3 whih GHQ didn't pick up. Both the TC's and the gunner's sight box had an arched lid, for instance, which is not reflected on the model, but it is hard to tell, isn't it? So I woukdn't worry about it. The only real visible difference is the barrel jacket/thermal sleeve. If you have a bunch of old sculpt M60A1s that you don't want, you can clip the barrels off and exchange them, BUT, let's just say some smart 2LT suggested they be added to the A1s in Saudi to improve accuracy. The reason for the sleeve was to HELP prevent barrel droop from heat, after all. Well worth ignoring the reality.

Send me an email address via PM. I want to send you a couple interesting links re M60s via email.

And I'm SURE you want a National Guard battalion of M48A5s (low profile), for which you buy the Israeli Magach 3 and clip off the caliber 50. Then, we can discuss how to build a battalion if the first M60s, one of M48A1s, and so forth... Oh, you are SOOOooo HOOKED on this stuff.

[Hoth_902]

Panzer, you have my email. However I will email you directly when I get a chance. Lol, yes I am hooked so much so.

[Hoth_902]

Panzer,

I current have 15 M60A3s with reactive Armor, 18 M60s without reactive armor, and two M60s without reactive armor that I added the M1A2 mine plow too. Then throw in the 15 M60 Sabra's, and you can say I have one foot in I am hoocked. The Iconic look of the M60 has always resonated with me and love them to death. I will also collect all the Israeli Magach's as well. If I am feeling really froggy, I might make a couple of M60s with M1 Turrets to have a company of the the M60-2000s lying around.




Match the M1 turret with maybe a Magach 6B or a 7 chassis.. Not quite correct, but you would get the idea. LOL

[panzergator]

Ok, you have a 14-tank company of A3s with a maintenace replacement. You have a 17-tank company of M60A1s with a maintenance spare, an engineer support platoon.

So here is what happens to me. One day I'm looking at this orphan tank company. What is irs mission? What can you do with an orphan tank company? Attach it in support of an infantry or mech battalion? How about a cavalry squadron? Ok, from where do its mechanics come? Did it get a slice from its own battalion? It can't go borrow a turret mechanic from an infantry unit and another tank battalion will have its own priorities for its turret mechanics and they'll never get around to your orphan. What about its POL? Spare parts - a lower-density item or a single company will have a difficult time building its demand history for its Prescribed Load List. For whom does this company work? Ah, hell. I need a battalion. That will answer those questions.

Ok, a tank battalion needs infantry support. Where does that come from? I need a mech company. Same questions arise. Gotta make a battalion. Then they can cross-attach accordung to the mission.

Ok, I have at least a mech battalion and a tank battalion. Geez, I HAVE to have an artillery battery, maybe two. Well, I have two batteries. Same questions. And I only need one nore battery to make a battalion. Wait a minute, I need something to carry ammo in, and FIST-Vs, and 577s.

I look around at these combat vehicles and think "I need the scouts, mortars, medics, command vehicles, Redeyes, GSRs, and the mech battalion anti-tank platoon, the company mortars and anti-tank section for H series.".

Now I have 2 combat battalions and an arty battalion, so I really need a brigade command section for this stuff. And some ADA. If you are panzergator, you decide to limit yourself to the tracked vehickes and a few support wheels, like Redeye jeeps, the maintenance and recovery tracks, medics, etc. But if you are BrigadeCommander, you tell yourself " These unirs need logistics vehicles - trucks - too!"

Well, I want an armor heavy task force - three-battalion brigade. Here comes another tank battalion, maybe one company a month or something. Or a mech battalion, which, by the way, is slightly more expensive, thanks to the additional mortars and antitank vehickes required. But now, you have a FULL BRIGADE! WITH ARTY SUPPORT! Oh, what about an ADA battery, at least, and an engineer company?

On to the next task. Now, it's been 50 years, any number of moves, three kids, ups and downs of budgetary constraints, Polish pottery, Belgian china, German crystal (because the wife has to have some fun, too) and I have a division of sorts, a separate armored brigade, an armored group, two cavalry squadrons One H and one J), an armored cavalry squadron, and still more ambitous projects. I have two 155 SP howitzer battakions with two to go (Divarty and the separare brigade), flesh out the engineer battalion, two more mech battalions (two of five in the division are currently in ad hoc wheeled units built befire I had a good plan).

Anyway, I started with a platoon of M60A2s and a Soviet tank company and was happy. For a month. Then it was back to the US Cavalry Store for two more platoons and a company headquarters, a mech platoon, and 21 more Russian tanks. And I was off to the races.

[redleg]

Momma always said micro armor was a gateway drug.

I find myself with plans that are way bigger than my budget, but then paint jobs complicate it even more. I want a full unit in NATO camo, but then maybe I need another full unit in tan too! And now we have two MERDC patterns in the mix too! Plus straight OD green!

After I finish my National Guard brigade (2 battalions of M60A3 and 1 mech battalion, plus artillery) I have several other projects that I want to do. It's too hard to focus on just one project!

[Hoth_902]

The way I have it set up, is Two full companies of M60A3s. One with reactive armor and one without. That leaves one extra tank per company. Then I have 4 M60A3s for my Marine Expeditionary unit with one spare tank for that one. I am sure I will increase the number of M60A3s I have, in the near future. I want to do some MERDC camo. Plus I will need some M60A3s with NATO tri color. Probably do both with and without reactive armor. For the ones with reactive armor, I will leave the bricks just green. In addition, I want to get out my carving knife and put a platoon of M6A3s with Reactive armor and add the M1A2 mine plow to that piece.

Thanks for sharing how you got started.. I love the evolution of your collecting. Mine too, started off slow and built up. I started back in the Early 90s when I stumbled across GHQ in a hobby store. I had purchased the game MBT and thought it would be cool to have actual tanks for pieces. I collected some M60s, Bradleys, M1s and some Leapards Is. This was put on hold for a while when I left for college. A couple of years into being there, I bought a few more pieces and actually played the basic version of MBT using the pieces. Then I got caught up in things and the collecting was on hold again. Once I got my first job, I stumbled across Brookhurst hobbies in California and bought a few more pieces. That soon went on hold a couple of months later when I relocated for Flight test of an aircraft in Yuma, Az. Then my stuff sat in storage for over 5 years.. I met my girlfriend and we moved to a new place to be close to her college she got accepted to.. I threw them all out. Several years later, A new coworker brought a renewed mutual interest in Axis and Allies. This started me collecting WWII pieces to replace the ones in the game. He soon moved away and my collecting was put on hold. Wanting to keep gaming, I decided to find a war gaming group. This renewed my interest in collecting again. I started off by just wanting a platoon or two so I had my own pieces for the games we played. Then I figured I would expand that a little and do a single platoon in each color scheme for that tank. I also started buying a pack of different types of vehicles that I thought were cool My collecting was tempered.. Then I made the mistake of pulling out my old reference books, I came across the Tom Clancy’s Armor Cav book. I had always been enamored with that organization from the first time I read it. Then I watched “Greatest tank battles” from history channel for the battle of 73 Eastings. I was hooked.. So I was like.. I will just build an armor Calvary troop.. Then I moved to Florida. I got a new war gaming group and actually got some of my modern pieces on the board. The guy I played with had a huge collection of complete company’s and larger. They looked so cool in the box and my obsessive compulsive side was teased and that is all it took. I soon started expanding my collection. It started with the Armor cav troop that was suddenly increased to a full Squadron. Then I started slowly expanding my British units and my Russian stuff. You need targets. Soon I had some German units, Turkish, Iraqi gulf war and Japanese. Then I connected with redleg and we started emailing.. Then I got hooked on the imagination stuff. Next thing I know I have another Company of M1A2s in Nato Tri color and a company of the M1A2 Sept Tusk II in Desert sand and two extra vehicles with the Chassis and turret green but the reactive armor bricks in desert sand. Then I needed infantry so I added another company of Bradley’s in NATO Tricolor. Now I think I need a company of M1A2 tusk with square reactive armor bricks and maybe another set of bradleys with reactive armor. With my Army units building, I switched back the marines and started building up my LAV and AAV-P7/A1. Plus all there support support and Anti tank units. Then GHQ released the Sabra.. so now I needed them. As a result of my new found obsession, I could not just buy a pack, I needed a full company and infantry support. So there is that now. Then I realized I want infantry stands so I am now building them up as well. O and then I decided the RPNW needed naval ships.. So I am fast building them up now.

Now, Redleg is constantly egging me on to buy more and more. So, I guess you could say he is pouring gas on the fire.. Or at least that is what I tell my girlfriend.. LOL.. “Redleg’s wife lets him have more.. why Can’t I.”

[panzergator]

I am fortunate. My wife understands and supports my hobby. She and my boys encourage me to paint more, but I'm waiting until my eyes are better.

You, too, have had a journey to get here. Throwing some away!!!!? My GOD, MAN. How shortsighted! But I get it.

My collection will evolve camo patterns, too. I am Eurocentric - served in Fulda Gap area a couple times, and I don't care for the sand color camo. I will go from OD to USAREUR MASSTER to MERDC to NATO. The challenge in some cases is getting the apprpriate vehicles - M48A1s and M59s, the arty to support it, etc. Some comes from Scotia, some from Shapeways, and some I will cobble together. The Pentomic changes primarily involved leg infantry divisions. The armored division (there were no mech division in those days) was relatively unchanged. So I will have an E series separate armored brigade in OD, a G series M60 bn and an M113 bn in OD, as part of the division, and the rest of the division will be in USAEUR MASSTER (1 tank and 1 mech), the 2 A2 bns will be OD (because that's what they were the first year they were in the division), MERDC (1 Tk and 2 Mech) and the transitioning to J units will be forest green - those are the M60A3 and the M113A2 battalions. The separate armored brigade will be NATO. The armored group will includes a Marine M60A1 (add-on armor) bn in forest or medium green, a Marine bn mounted in LAVs in NATO, another OD M60A2 bn, and an M48A5 National Guard bn in a desert MERDC variety. DIVARTY will have forest green M110A2 and MLRS, an OD 18-piece M109 battalion, a USAREUR MASSTER M109A1 battalion, and a MERDC M109A1 battalion. The separate brigade artillery battalion will be painted NATO three-color. The divcav will be USAREUR MASSTER, the sepbde cav will be NATO, and the Stateside ACR will be OD. All according to period and equipment. My collection ends before First Gulf, so no sand camo.

Ya gotta have a plan.

[Hoth_902]

O, trust me, my girlfriend is super supportive of my hobby. she loves to see the end results. Once, at the only tournament that I've attended, she actually walked around on her own and checked everything out. She is awesome. Any ribbing toward her is meant to be playful jokes. What she does, is actually keep me from spending to much.

And yes, I have had a journey. I would also agree that it was short sited. In my life, there were so few people that I have ever come across that war gamed. So I had hit a point that I thought I would never come across like minded people. Everyonce in a while, I stop and think about what I carelessly discarded.

[mike robel]

Thanks for the info, PG! I wasn't going to paint any M901 / M981 in MERDC because of the lack of FIST-Vs in M60 units...but my plans have just changed!

My company tested FIST-Vs in Spring 1984. I was attached to 5-16 INF from 4-37 AR for the grueling 6 week test which included a mixture of maneuver and live fire. When I got to Germany in Summer 1984, my FIST was still in an M113 but got into the FIST V by the end of my command. I concur with the 3/3 mix for the Scout Platoon.

[mike robel]

Ok, you have a 14-tank company of A3s with a maintenace replacement. You have a 17-tank company of M60A1s with a maintenance spare, an engineer support platoon.

So here is what happens to me. One day I'm looking at this orphan tank company. What is irs mission? What can you do with an orphan tank company? Attach it in support of an infantry or mech battalion? How about a cavalry squadron? Ok, from where do its mechanics come? Did it get a slice from its own battalion? It can't go borrow a turret mechanic from an infantry unit and another tank battalion will have its own priorities for its turret mechanics and they'll never get around to your orphan. What about its POL? Spare parts - a lower-density item or a single company will have a difficult time building its demand history for its Prescribed Load List. For whom does this company work? Ah, hell. I need a battalion. That will answer those questions.

Ok, a tank battalion needs infantry support. Where does that come from? I need a mech company. Same questions arise. Gotta make a battalion. Then they can cross-attach accordung to the mission.

Ok, I have at least a mech battalion and a tank battalion. Geez, I HAVE to have an artillery battery, maybe two. Well, I have two batteries. Same questions. And I only need one nore battery to make a battalion. Wait a minute, I need something to carry ammo in, and FIST-Vs, and 577s.

I look around at these combat vehicles and think "I need the scouts, mortars, medics, command vehicles, Redeyes, GSRs, and the mech battalion anti-tank platoon, the company mortars and anti-tank section for H series.".

Now I have 2 combat battalions and an arty battalion, so I really need a brigade command section for this stuff. And some ADA. If you are panzergator, you decide to limit yourself to the tracked vehickes and a few support wheels, like Redeye jeeps, the maintenance and recovery tracks, medics, etc. But if you are BrigadeCommander, you tell yourself " These unirs need logistics vehicles - trucks - too!"

Well, I want an armor heavy task force - three-battalion brigade. Here comes another tank battalion, maybe one company a month or something. Or a mech battalion, which, by the way, is slightly more expensive, thanks to the additional mortars and antitank vehickes required. But now, you have a FULL BRIGADE! WITH ARTY SUPPORT! Oh, what about an ADA battery, at least, and an engineer company?

On to the next task. Now, it's been 50 years, any number of moves, three kids, ups and downs of budgetary constraints, Polish pottery, Belgian china, German crystal (because the wife has to have some fun, too) and I have a division of sorts, a separate armored brigade, an armored group, two cavalry squadrons One H and one J), an armored cavalry squadron, and still more ambitous projects. I have two 155 SP howitzer battakions with two to go (Divarty and the separare brigade), flesh out the engineer battalion, two more mech battalions (two of five in the division are currently in ad hoc wheeled units built befire I had a good plan).

Anyway, I started with a platoon of M60A2s and a Soviet tank company and was happy. For a month. Then it was back to the US Cavalry Store for two more platoons and a company headquarters, a mech platoon, and 21 more Russian tanks. And I was off to the races.

Or you just invent the Combined Army Battalion with either a 2 x 2 balanced battalion, or a 3 x 1 Mech/Tank, 1 x 3 Mech/Tank, or 2 x 1 Mech/Tank, or 1 x 2 Mech/tank and congratulate yourself for your future forecasting ability!

[panzergator]

We have HAD this discussion, Mike. I DON'T LIKE the combined arms battalion. I prefer to combat tailor units according to requirements.

[redleg]

Thanks for the info on FIST-Vs Mike!

[redleg]

I'm making some progress on my CAARNG project. I'm calling it a battalion now since I have two tank companies and one mech company done (just tracks and no dismounts yet). 30 tanks total and 14 APCs for A / 2-185 AR, B / 2-185 AR, and A / 4-160 IN, plus BN CDR and S3 tanks.

Sorry for the scheisty photography. I'll take some more pics after I get another company done.