GHQ Models Forums

That's pretty spectacular Pete! Both on the bridge and on the tanks!

Thank you both very much, Chris and Redleg!

Panthers! Panthers! Panthers!

lol

Hey Pete,

I am slowly getting up the guts to actually do some Camo patterns on my stuff. Quick question... This is important because I am an a_n_a_l engineer and really looking for someone to tell me it does not matter.... LOL. When you paint your Camo, do you try and base if off of an actual unit's camo type or you just do a generic camo pattern and use if for any unit you are trying to model?

For US vehicles, there is a specified pattern. Most units APPROXIMATE the regulation pattern, but you will see wild anomylies, as well. Look at pics on line to get an idea. One instance - when 3AD went to MERDC in '76--'77, our brigade got no sand, so we adjusted the other three colors (forest green, black, and brown). Even more variation could be found in the preceding USAREUR MASSTER patterns. Other countries usually aren't as OCD about it, even UK. That said, it's YOUR army. Do what you like. I prefer the approximate approach, which is a bit more exacting than the way I first started. And a standard OD makes things a lot simpler.

Panzer,

You old dog. I knew you could not stay away. Need to keep us in line from time to time. As for my camo question, this was more for WWII stuff. Because of past conversations with you and some others, that were quick to point out that my pattern varied too much between tanks in a company, I know the camo pattern is pretty close to each other. I have since rectified that situation and though there are slight differences from tank to tank, the overall patter is basically the same. Then in combat, I I get there can be probably a lot of variation. My question was more for WWII tanks. More specifically, it was not for the specific pattern, but more int the type of camo... Like Ambush vs Just dark yellow. Single color vs Multi color. Since WWII tends to be games that are more actual events vs what if's, I just wondered how people modeled there tanks.. If the build a 15th panzer, do they try and match the type of camo.. or just what they like.

Hoth, first, I stick to Cold War NATO, although I may talk about US WWII, occasionally. My study has decreased considerably for reasons I won't go into. Also, camo is a moving target, not only because of developing techniques, but technology and philosophy. Just look at WWII. Different shades of olive drab, olive green, different shades of each in vogue a t least each year. Then there's sunbleaching, wind, and other things that affect the original shade. Unit-applied pattern camo will never be consistent, whether applied by brush or spray, unless, MAYBE, it comes from the factory. And then there is color availability.

At any rate, I don't think I criticized you for a lack of consistency. On principle, there should not be any consistency, as that means there is an identifiable pattern, which can be programmed into instruments to more easily find the vehicles. But we nevertheless do it...

Thanks very much Hoth and Panzergator!

As Panzergator says, for modern U.S. and NATO patterns, including MERDC, there was a prescribed pattern to be applied for a particular vehicle. Of course there were some variations but that was due to the skill of the person or persons applying the camo. I remember when I was in, the tanks would get a chalk outline of the pattern and then the paint was applied within the boundaries of the chalk outline.

As far as German WWII camo goes, Hoth, you have lots of latitude here. When the Germans officially instituted their 3 color scheme in February 1943, the base color was Dunkelgelb from the factory while the green and brown were to be applied by units in the field. There was tremendous latitude as to how the colors could be applied and the patterns.

Ideally, the camo was to be applied with a paint sprayer and use solvent, gas or diesel to thin it. Occasionally, if the petroleum based solvents were in short supply, water could also be used but the paint was much less durable. In lieu of a sprayer, the colors could be applied with a brush or even a mop or broom in some cases.

If you look at pictures of German vehicles you will see lots of variations in camo patterns. It also seems to depend a bit on period of the war you are talking about as well. You will sometimes see only 1 of the 2 camo colors applied and sometimes no camo over the Dunkelgelb as well, especially some vehicles operating in Italy and Russia. Stripes, blotches, squiggles, were all common.

Later in the war around the fall of 1944, there was an attempt to create more standard camo patterns, at least for some vehicles. This is the time the "Ambush Scheme" starts appearing and often it was applied at the factory. I see the ambush scheme most commonly on Panthers and Tiger IIs produced during that period. I don't think very many Tiger Is if any got the ambush scheme.

As far as what units had what camo scheme AND were all the vehicles necessarily painted the same in a unit, I don't have a pat answer. As an example, the 503rd Schwere Abteilung during Kursk, seems to have a variations in camo. Some Tigers appear to have no camo, while others seem to have some green blotches on them in no particular pattern. I am currently working on some Tiger Is for this unit. I plan to go with the 2nd Company for markings and will have some with camo and some will just be in base Dunkelgelb.

The Panther Ds I am currently working on are in the 3 tone scheme. I will be posting pictures of these very soon. So far, when I do German camo on my WWII tanks I try to give it the sprayed on look. I have not tried to replicate the more rough type applications that can sometimes be seen.

I will post some more pictures of some of the vehicles I have painted in various camo patterns for my WWII Germans. I have a number of my own as well as from the GHQ catalog.

I hope I have been of help.

Here are some pictures of camouflaged German vehicles I have done over the last 20 years or so.



Hetzers



Bussing NAG



Maultier



StuG III Gs



Sdkfz 11



German, French, and Italian trucks



Elephant representing a Ferdinand in a Kursk scheme



Elephant in more typical later scheme



Panthers - A and G types



Sdkfz 251C and 251D Half-tracks.

Pete,

OMG, thanks for posting more of your handy work. Always amazed at how good they are. The pictures, of the vehicles up close, are really good and then when you pull way for table top distance.. they look even better. Looking at your color choice for the wheels, shows I need to lighten my wheel color a little bit more. I current take Nato Black and then add a small amount of German Grey to it and it gives it a good effect. However, Iike the appearance of your tires with more grey in them. Please keep posting pics. Its fuel for my fire to keep collecting and modeling.

Thanks for your reply on the camo of WWII units and there camo commonality. I had read enough, to see that. I have come across this picture several times.. I love the dark yellow Kublewagen in the middle of all the German Grey Tanks.


I am a little skiddish about doing certain things with mixing paint schemes without seeing something that back it up or having someone like yourself or Panzer confirm it. That is my Engineer side that takes over. I know I obsess more than is probably necessary for this type of hobby.

Panzer,
By no way did I ever think you had criticized me. Nor did I think the feedback I got was criticism.. I love all the feedback and everyone opinions. I think it makes for a better product in the end. I take it all in and see what works for me and then move forward. People like you, Pete, Mike Robel, Redleg, Cavdog, Paul, and many others have helped me improve my final product and inspired me to take this hobby in directions that I never thought about and knew I could do. Thank you all and to those that I did not directly mention here.

Damn Pete! That's amazing work! I always love seeing your tanks and half tracks. You posting pics of your work makes me feel like when I'm sitting at a red light in my hoopty and somebody pulls up in a Ferrari!

Pete, love those German 3-tone, awesome!!
Dang rich paint job.

Hi Hoth! That is a very interesting and unusual picture of a light colored Kubelwagen and all the Panzer Gray tanks. It would be interesting to hear the story of that. These tanks look like they are from the Barbarossa period of 1941. I know in 1942 the Germans were trying to give some of their tanks a more disruptive camouflage by applying sand and or green stripes or blotches over the Panzer Gray as that color had a tendency to stand out on the open Russian Steppes. This was not official by the way but a field expedient. Some vehicles may just have had dabs of dried mud applied all over which would also break up the outline a bit. I have even heard of some vehicles bound for North Africa in their overall sand color being diverted to Russia so that they would show up in the lighter color. I don't know about this picture though.

Thanks you both very much, Redleg and Chris!

Here are a few more pictures of mid to late WWII German vehicles I have painted for GHQ.

Here are some pictures of my M4A1 Shermans. I have a company plus completed.