Curse You Pete Skaar 🤭

[pmskaar]

Hi Panzergator

I went to 3AD HQ in Frankfurt in June 1981. I was in the G1 shop when I got there. There was not much for me to do and I was bored. In September, I moved across to DISCOM HQ and became the adjutant to the DISCOM Commander for several months. In June of 1982, I transferred up to 1st Brigade in Kirchgoens and eventually 2/33 Armor. I had several assignments at 2/33 including BMO, C Company Commander, and finished up the last 5 months or so as Project Cohort Officer.

[panzergator]

Ah, The Rock! Was Dennis Crumley the brigade commander? I knew him at Knox in '74 when he was Secretary of Armor. Ran into him in '83 at the Giessen O'Club one Sunday brunch.

[pmskaar]

Colonel Sullivan was there when I got there. Colonel Crumley came over in 1983 if I recall. He was still there when I left in May of 1985.

[panzergator]

I admired Crumley very much. Always calm and steady, whatever the crisis. I understand he died unexpectedly at Benning in the early 90s, but have not been able to find out how.

On another front, I sometimes get the impression there is a bit of an Armor mafia on this forum... fortunately.

[pmskaar]

Very interesting, Cama! Definitely a bit different but impressive.

I went through the 2 year ROTC program at ASU (Arizona State University), got commissioned in 1975 when I graduated, and then had almost a year off before going through my AOB(Armor Officer Basic) class in April - July 1976. I did a 3 week stint at Ft. Benning, GA to learn how to jump out of perfectly good airplanes. From there I headed off to Korea for my first tour of duty with 1/72nd Armor at Camp Casey. I actually commanded 1/9th of the U.S. tank forces in Korea. OK .... I was a platoon leader in a tank platoon and since there was only the one tank battalion in Korea at the time.

[panzergator]

Did you go to Fort Knox for basic ROTC camp then? I went through 2 year program at Uof Florida, Knox for basic camp, and Bragg for advanced camp. I never did see jumping out of an airplane as a tanker. Brothers were infantry officers, though. Both went to Korea. My penalty tour was at Fort Polk, instead.

[pmskaar]

Hi Panzergator! Yup, I did my ROTC Basic Camp at Ft. Knox in 1973. I did my Advanced Camp at Ft. Lewis, WA in 1974.

[panzergator]

I was not far from you in '73, slogging around in A/12-5 and B/17-5 in the wooden barracks (as seen so famously in Stripes), pushing basic training troops. I took my basic camp in B/17-5.

[7.62]

Wow, definitely different approaches.

After about 52 weeks I was a Trooper.
I was a sergeant once or twice.
Left after a little more than 7 1/2 years, as a Trooper.

Great time.

[panzergator]

Camp wasn't all there was to it. There was also the two years of classes and drills in college. 7.62 likeky got the most thorough training. For lieutenants, there was a lot of coaching by experienced NCOs and OJT (read seat-of-the-pants) learning by mistake once on active duty. Canada's, and UK'SPs approach is/was different.

[redleg]

We had some guys in the National Guard that got commissioned while they were still in college. If I recall correctly, they graduated from one of the 2-year military schools (like New Mexico Military Institute) and they got a commission as a 2LT in the National Guard. They still had to finish college and get their bachelors degree and they couldn't go active duty until they finished. We always had a couple dudes showing up to our ROTC physical fitness tests because they still had to pass the APFT twice a year, but they didn't have to go to our ROTC classes or FTXs.

Pete, I used to run past the 1-72 AR motor pool all the time for PT. I got to Camp Hovey in 1998 and by that time they had a lot more tanks! 1st Brigade / 2nd ID had 1-72AR, 2-72 AR, and 2-9 IN, all at Camp Casey. Plus there was the DivCav squadron down the road (Camp Gary Owen maybe?)

[pmskaar]

Hi Cama! Interesting training for you. A bit different than ours but interesting.

[pmskaar]

Hi Redleg

When I was in Korea, we had 2 Mech and 1 Tank battalion at Camp Casey. We were known as the Iron Brigade, a nickname I am sure was stolen from the famous Union Civil War unit. Our motto was "Ride to the sound of the guns". Sometime after I left in 1977, the 2/72nd tank battalion was added but I don't know when that was. Obviously it was there when you were. Have a great day!

Pete

[pvt64]

Wow, I'm the odd man out. I was not an officer, nor in Armor. I enlisted in the Marine Corps in 1985 going guaranteed Infantry; and after Parris Island(8-11/85) went to Infantry Training School; graduating in 2/86. As a teenager I read everything I could on the WWII in the Pacific(hence the Phillipenes campaign interest Pete). Becuse of this interest my number one choice for a duty station was Second Battallion 6th Marines in Camp Lejuene?. Everyone picks 3rd Marines as a request as they are in Hawaii, but me? Oh no, I'm going to Okinawa. Went to Okinawa April to October 1986. This included a two week exercise in Korea. Kept a fire going for two days in pouring rain using the issued bug repellent. Our Platoon Leader took us up the wrong hill while there. If you've been to Korea, you know what those mountains are like. Returned too Lejuene until March 1987 until my Med float from 9/87-3/88 going to Syracuse on Sicily, Mainland Italy, Marsielles, Haifa, Tangiers, Minorca, Toulon, Lisbon and then Rota Spain before going back to the States. Just prior to this deployment my Platoon Sargent came into my room one day as I was playing a game of Agean Strike by Victory Games.(This game was about a WWIII Warsaw pack attack into Greece and Turkey). When I explained the game to him, he said that I was being wasted in a rifle platoon and two weeks later I was transfered to Headquaters and Service company becoming the battalion Classified Materials Control Center Clerk. I EAS'd 8/88. As an Infantryman, I don't know how I became interested in Armor. I had a passing interest in all things military before joining the Marine Corps. The two main areas that I think that were lacking in the Marine Corps at that time was no extensive training with the amtracks for mechanized warfare(vehicles were for things that could not move themselves) and zero training with any tank units. You'd see hem zip by and that was it. I remember one time during a training excersize it came over the radio that "enemy" tanks were 10 klicks away and heading our way. My 2nd LT commented that we had 20 minutes before they get here and I remarked, :Sir, that's how fast we move; they will be here in 2 minutes." With that the battalion got up to move out and here comes the tanks zipping through. There was also absolutely no sillouette of vehicles or aircraft training. People were amazed at my reading of "Weapons and Doctrane of The Warsaw Pact." An excellent book that I still have. In my opinion we were training to fight Vietnam again. The only reference to any Soviet doctrane that was ever mentioned was to once taking an objective to imediately start digging in as the Soviets loved to hit former positions with artillery. As a modeler, I took lots of pictures of ships, planes helicoptors and vehicles as painting references for the future. Highlights for me were going to Masada in Israel, seeing the Golan Heights and Jerusalem(both from a distance) being on the Spanish carrier which was an Independence Class carrier from WWII, the former USS Cabot. Visited the USS Iowa; and of course made some friends that I still speak to today. I do however miss being the tip of the spear of US foreign policy.

[panzergator]

A commendable service recodd, lots of initiative and thinking going on in that head of yours. We often joked about infantry thinking at 2 1/2 miles an hour, but if you are an infantryman with little experience in mounted warfare, it can be difficult to appreciate the difference. My brothers were both infantry officers and, on those few occasions when we were all together at Christmas, we discussed this issue.One went to his infantry advanced course about two years after I attended AOAC. When we compared notes, AOAC came out way ahead in combined arms warfare, a source of my discomfort today, since the relocation of the Armor School to Fort Benning, the Home of Indantry.

We should keep in mind the different missions and specialties, though. The Marines have moved away from tanks in the last couple years as they refocus on the Pacific region and I appreciate their point of view. It is early in this process. They are looking at ways to fight tanks with better, more mobile, and lighter anti-tank weapons, which, given the logistics burden they must work within, is likely a reasonable approach. We will have to be patient as the new doctrine develops and see where it goes.

Perhaps most of us look back fondly at our service as a time when we were doing something meaningful, however miserable we might have been doing it.