M1A1 SA

[Hoth_902]

Quick questions for the experts out there. So I was reading through a new reference book I got, "Images Of War M1 Abrams Tank" by Michael Green. In there they show a picture of an M1A1 SA that they say was operated by the national guard. So then I did some investigation on the web. What I saw was that the M1A1 SA is similar to the M1A1 AIM which was bought by the Australians. So then I remembered that that GHQ makes a M1A1 SA. So I looked and they actually list it as an M1A1 AIM SA. Knowing that the web and books get something wrong, I have the following questions.

1. Is there a such thing as a M1A1 AIM SA or because the SA and AIM are the pretty much the same, GHQ is just listing it as both?
2. Did the US Army buy any M1A1 SA's either for the main force or the National guard as the book I mentioned indicated?
3. Did the US Army buy and M1A1 AIM's either for the main force or the National guard?

Based on the references I looked at, its pretty unclear who got them other than foreign sales. I am pretty sure Morroco and a few other places bought the M1A1 SA.

Just wondering in case I need to buy another company of M1A1s for my US forces. LOL.. Like I need another reason. If you have any other details about these two tanks, please share.

[Hoth_902]

So according to the Army Recognition site and the Army Guide web site, they both indicate the US operates both types. Well, the only difference between the export and domestic is the DU armor.

Does anyone have a more reliable source than that to confirm this for sure? I have no way to validate the accuracy of either site.

[panzergator]

My go-to source used to be the latest edition of Jane's Tanks and Armored Fighting Vehicles, but I haven't seen a recent publication of it in years. Maybe there is an online source. Print information used to be more available, obvious, and easy to obtain. It seems more difficult to find GOOD information these days.

[Hoth_902]

Panzer,

Does Janes give provide the nations that use each variant? Do you know anything about Army Recognition or the Army Guide site? Are they accurate? Looking at Army Guide, it might be a russian site. They have the option to change the text on the page to russian... Army Recognition appears to be French. ugh.

[panzergator]

Jane's lists by country, if you can find one. Latest I've seen was 2006, I think. Not familiar with those sites you mention.

The active Army just doesn't operate the same model tank across the board. Upgrades mean the tank fleet is always in a state of flux. A battalion's tanks reach a certain mileage and they are scheduled for turn-in, issue of the next model, a modification work order changes a configuration, the National Guard gets last year's model, etc. The fleet goes through rebuild and improvement and units are staggered through the program.

[Hoth_902]

Panzer,
As if you punctuate your last post, I was reading in "Images Of war" "M1 Abrams Tank Rare Photographs from Wartime Archives", that the us National Guard has six full armored brigade Combat teams. So that settles it, some future purchase will also include the M1A1 SA AIM.

I wish GHQ did a little more research and listed all the countries that operate the vehicle. If they only had a historian working for them. Maybe a local college has a history major that could do research. I know pipe dreams. LOL..

Thanks for your input Panzer.

[panzergator]

You might study the different models a bit to identify the visual cues that differentiate the versions of the tank - things like the track skirts, commander's thermal viewer, bore evacuator shape, tell you what changed from model to model. Then you decide what model to buy to represent the model you want. The US M1A1 SA version may be visually different than the M1A1 AIM. I haven't studied enough to hip shoot an answer. Check out Hunnicutt's book on the subject.

[Hoth_902]

The Reference I am looking at makes it seem like the changes were to the sensors and I think the US non exported model has improved DU armor on the turret. They also state they added stabilized Commanders weapons station. Pictures of the Guard AIM SA seem to physically look the same as pictures of the australian AIM SA. I will try to look up some of the australian tanks and compare them to the ones in my reference.

As for Hunnicutt's book, what is the title of it and is it on the web or something I need to buy?

[panzergator]

My usual reference is "Abrams: A History of the American Main Battle Tank, Volume 2. Unfortunately, Mr. Hunnicutt died in 2011 and there is no indication that a publisher has commissioned any further update. The original was published in 2009 and republished in 2015. Usually, book data is a couple years old by the time the book comes out. So, likely anything that has happened since 2007 will have come from the internet. I suggest you take a look at the division website, as well as searching on the tank type. I have seen more recent books on M1, such as the Osprey types. Much depends on the specific period you want to model. There may be much research in your future.

The Hunnicutt books are usually available from Amazon.

Good luck.

Jim

[Hoth_902]

Dang you Panzer... I was hoping for something more definitive.. LOL. I will look around a little, but in the end I am betting the differences are minor at that scale. In fact, at the very least, it could be used as the RPNW's reserve units. They would be Atleast good enough to take down NC.. LOL.. Now when you say check the division, are you say look at the actual unit site?

[panzergator]

Yeahhhh, I got old and out of date. Try checking the unit websites. You may have to put some work into creating search parameters. The difficulty is the pace of development has just gotten faster and faster and it's hard to keep up. The magazines at the newstands have withered away. They used to give us access to continuing developments, which we no longer get.

[Hoth_902]

Yea, we are all getting there. I am not as experienced as you, but I am not far behind. I remember as a kid, I use to buy a "International Combat Arms". I learned a lot from those color pages of goodness. Back then, it was easy to figure out which publications were legit and which ones weren't. Today, there is so much garbage on the internet, because there is no way to regulate it. Anyone with a computer can make any article or site they want and sometimes its hard to determine what is real or just click bate. ahhh.. kids these days.. LOL..

As always, thanks for the help.

[Hoth_902]

I guess, one thing I have confirmed, is that the US National Guard does operate the M1A1 AIM SA. The only thing left to do is see if there is anything different between the export model and the National guard model. That is where the research comes in. I think in the end, I will be guying some of the ones GHQ designates as Aussie tanks, but I think they will work. Most of the pictures, I have seen for the US National guard, seem to match the one GHQ modeled.

[panzergator]

You may get useful info by identifying battalions and looking for their websites. SOMETIMES, you can glean useful info, but not always. It's still a good place to start. Should you search by specific type, you still have to sort through all the worthless sites that don't really meet your search criteria, but were just thrown in there. Identify the major model discriminators, such as 120mm gun, CITV, bustle rack, track skirt sprocket cutout, specialized add-ons for a particular theater, campaign, or mission. There are SOME identifiable differences in the overall armor envelope, but those can be hard to discern. For the GHQ models, you have to depend on the sculptor using micrometers to get the correct dimensions for features, as well as doing the research to FIND the correct measurements. That doesn't always happen. And references... I can cite a specific reference where an artist took his M48 drawing and superimposed M60 features, such as the cupola and bore evacuator, to make an M60, but it just DOES NOT look right.

The solution to all of this is familiarity with the subject and a practiced eye. I am still familiarizing and practicing at 71. Of course, money spent on references is money NOT spent on micro armor, but the reverse is also true.

[panzergator]

The Hunnicutt book does not cover the M1A1 AIM.