Armored Cavalry Regiments

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panzergator
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Re: Armored Cavalry Regiments

Post by panzergator »

Regarding the guidons, I think the only the lettered troops carry cavalry guidons, which only concerns the tank company in regimental squadrons, at least in the black boot army. At times, at it may have been up to the regimental, squadron, or troop commander, the tank company may have carried the armor or the cavalry guidon. Being a lettered company, it most likely should have been a cavalry guidon. The howitzer battery was not a letter unit and referred to as "How Battery," carried an artillery guidon. In my time, other elements were not big enough to carry guidons, although they may have used one to represent a parent unit on parade.

Only regimental units used consecutive letters throughout squadrons - 2nd, 3rd, and 11th ACRs, because there was an active regimental headquarters in command. Divisional units did not do this, so both 3-12 and 4-12 squadrons had three troops, labeled A, B, and C. Those units not actually falling under an active regimental headquarters were indicated by the hyphen in their title. Regimental units were indicated by a slash - 1/11th ACR. During WWII, the two heavy armored division, 2nd and 3rd, started with 2 armored regiments under regimental headquarters and their companies were lettered sequentially throughout the regiment, 1st Battalion with A through D (3 medium tank companiesand 1 light tank company), 2nd battalion having E through H, and 3rd battalion I, K, L, and M, J not being used to avoid confusion with J in hand-written orders. The Army has not been kind to the continuity of unit designations and following your unit history requires some Houdini-like contortions to get from point A to point present. If your unit is a regimental cavalry squadron, your task is relatively simple, but almost every other combat arms unit requires a map.

I have an Armor/Cavalry Lineage two-volume set, but a third volume would be required to follow what the Army has done since the post-Desert Storm drawdown and those responsible ought to be required to tour Army posts and recite the changes without latrine breaks weekly before Congress.

I HAVE seen a cavalry guidon with "HOW" on it, as well as an artillery guidon with "HOW" on it, so there have been exceptions to this. I have not served in a cavalry unit and those who have may have seen circumstances which differed from what I outlined above. Mike Roble could likely offer better insights here, but he has left the building and the hobby.

You likely have a lot of latitude.
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redleg
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Re: Armored Cavalry Regiments

Post by redleg »

Thank you for the insight PG! Since it does seem that there is a lot of latitude with the guidons I think I'll do everything in the first four squadrons with red and white guidons, to include the tank company, how battery, and aviation troops. I already did 1st squadron in all red and white so I'll just keep that trend going with the others. The MI company, chemical company, engineer company, and ADS battery will get guidons in their branch colors. I suppose the troops of the support squadron will be red and white as well. At least as a starting point - they're only paper so I can change them later if needed.

The regimental system is pretty cool, but sometimes very confusing to me. My first unit was 2-17 FA, but it had recently been re-flagged from 8-8 FA. We still had documents around with the 8th Battalion, 8th Field Artillery letterhead, and I always wondered how you could get 8 battalions in any kind of regiment. At some point shouldn't you say "Ok that's enough for 8th, FA, this next battalion will start a new regiment"?
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Cav Dog
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Re: Armored Cavalry Regiments

Post by Cav Dog »

In 3rd ACR while I was there 1990 through 1996, the tank companies D, H and M had their respective letters on red over white guidons, all the troops in 4th Squadron had red over white as well. This was true of Support Squadron as well. The Howitzer Batteries had HOW on red over white. Unfortunately I don't recall what the MI, Chem, Signal and Engineer companies used. I don't recall seeing anything other than red over white, but per my previous post, that was a long time ago.
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panzergator
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Re: Armored Cavalry Regiments

Post by panzergator »

I believe practices changed from time to time.
All blessings flow from a good mission statement.
Pogo was right. So was Ike.
"A Gentleman is a man who is only rude intentionally." (Churchill)
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redleg
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Re: Armored Cavalry Regiments

Post by redleg »

Hey Cav Dog, were you at Fort Carson with 3rd ACR? Did you guys have Kiowas there, or was there a problem with the altitude at Carson? I thought there was some issue with the Kiowas, but that was a long time ago and I can't remember what the deal was.
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Cav Dog
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Re: Armored Cavalry Regiments

Post by Cav Dog »

Hi Redleg,

I retired shortly before they moved to Ft Carson.

The Kiowas were barely able to operate with full fuel loads at Ft Bliss and it got worse when they went to the higher altitudes of Ft Carson. Essentially in hotter temps or higher altitudes, the blades are less efficient and the engines develop less power so the older OH-58A/C models just weren't up to it. In 1998 they switched to OH-58D Kiowa Warriors and while they had a better rotor system and a more powerful engine, by the time the Army got through arming them, they were operating a max gross weight most of the time and suffered from much the same power limitations so you had to choose between a lot of fuel or a lot of ammo but not a lot of both. The more the aircraft weighs, the greater the power demand on the engine and lift required from the rotor.

That was the reason most of the OH-58Ds in Afghanistan were only armed with rockets and a .50 cal. It was the lightest armament configuration that still allowed for a reasonable compromise between combat power and fuel endurance.
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Re: Armored Cavalry Regiments

Post by redleg »

Thanks for that info Cav Dog! It's always great to get the real data from someone who there there flying around in them. I am woefully ignorant when it comes to aviation. From an artillery perspective I'm down with SEAD and JAAT and working an execution matrix, but the specifics of helicopter payload and capabilities are beyond my limited knowledge.

I have 2 troops of OH-58Ds so far for my ACR, but I need to get a lot more for 4th Squadron. I'm putting it off because it's so expensive, but I can only put it off for so long!
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panzergator
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Re: Armored Cavalry Regiments

Post by panzergator »

Print 'em. Only solution.
All blessings flow from a good mission statement.
Pogo was right. So was Ike.
"A Gentleman is a man who is only rude intentionally." (Churchill)
Give credit. Take responsibility.

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Re: Armored Cavalry Regiments

Post by Cav Dog »

When 4th Squadron was what I consider its most capable was when they were organized with three Air Cav Troops, Nomad, Outlaw & Pegasus with 8 OH-58D Kiowa Warriors each and two Attack Troops, Quicksilver & Renegade which had 6 AH-64 Apaches each, plus Stetson with 15 UH-60s plus the Quickfix platoon with 3 EH-60s.

And yeah that will get expensive.
Tactics are the opinion of the senior officer present.

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Re: Armored Cavalry Regiments

Post by redleg »

Gentlemen, I am pleased to announce that 2nd Squadron / 9th ACR is now complete and certified as combat ready. 260 vehicles total and 36 dismounted scout teams. The tanks are all M1A1s and the Brads are all M3A2s. The how battery has the new M109A7 howitzers, but the fire support teams are still rolling in the M981 FIST-Vs. At some point they will upgrade to the BFIST and the M981s will go to my DD-214 project. 1st How Battery still has the M109A6 howitzers, so they will need to upgrade to A7 at some point as well.

Now that I have two full squadrons, I guess I need to complete Regimental HHT for command and control. I’ll also work on the independent companies (engineers, air defense, chemical, intel) and maybe some more aviation before I start on 3rd Squadron.
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7.62
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Re: Armored Cavalry Regiments

Post by 7.62 »

Very impressive Mike.
Also kind of intimidating too!
Keep em coming.

chrisswim
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Re: Armored Cavalry Regiments

Post by chrisswim »

Looking very nice.
Nice, consistent TO&E.
Great looking parade of colors.
Chris

panzergator
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Re: Armored Cavalry Regiments

Post by panzergator »

redleg,

Looking good on all fronts. One more squadron to go and then on to aviation!
All blessings flow from a good mission statement.
Pogo was right. So was Ike.
"A Gentleman is a man who is only rude intentionally." (Churchill)
Give credit. Take responsibility.

redleg
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Re: Armored Cavalry Regiments

Post by redleg »

Thanks for the kind words guys.

PG, I have 2 air cav troops now - 2 Kiowas per pack! It's going to hurt when I stat buying he Apaches and Blackhawks though!
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Re: Armored Cavalry Regiments

Post by Hoth_902 »

Redleg,

Simply Amazing. I can see them now, storming across the battle field, brushing all aside that appose them.
Quantity has a Quality all its own.

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