Armored Cav?

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panzergator
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Re: Armored Cav?

Post by panzergator »

You can find the history of 107th ACR by searching on that term. Its units served in Iraq. After service in Iraq, the regiment, minus 2nd Squadron, was reformed as a brigade combat team, presumably with 2/107th as the brigade cavalry squadron. I do not know what TOE it operated under from 1980 on.

Search on 278th ACR for its convoluted history. It was a separate infantry brigade in 1977 when it was redesignated 278th ACR, a separate corps maneuver unit.
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Re: Armored Cav?

Post by Roger H »

Last I saw of the 278th after the modular reorganization, it had three standard CAB’s ( two in Tennessee, one in Pennsylvania ) , the Howitzer batteries were recombined into a brigade fires Bn and it got a BEB formed from the old BSTB . It’s just a standard Heavy Brigade with the cavalry designation . The old regimental aviation squadron had Kiowa Warriors and Apaches, but when those retired , the air cav switched over to Blackhawks and became a lift Bn .

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Re: Armored Cav?

Post by jwbolen »

I know the 107th was an ACR in the Ohio guard (less the first squadron and I think some aviation elements which were in the West VA. guard) until 93. It was broken up into the first and second squadrons in Ohio and the WV elenents becane 1/150 something. The first squadron was dropped in 07 the second is now part of the 37th Infantry Brigade Combat Team. The 2nd spent some time in the 28 Div.
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panzergator
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Re: Armored Cav?

Post by panzergator »

So, I'm GUESSING that in the period you are addressing, 278th was an ACR using platoons of 4 M48A5s or M60A3s, 4 M113A1s or M113A2s, and an M106 mortar. Likely same for 107th. Hope all this helps.
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Re: Armored Cav?

Post by Roger H »

A couple of pretty good “rules of thumb” regarding the equipment used by guard units in the 70s and 80s

1) Armored and Armored Cav units equipped with M-48A5 and M-60A0/M-60A1 were supplemented with the M-150 TOW pedistal mounts in M-113s
2) Armored and Armored Cav units equipped with M-60A3 and even M-1/M-1IP were supplemented with the M-901 ITV
3) Based on all evidence I see , the Sheridans were in mostly the divisional cavalry squadrons in the Guard, but they were definitely NOT in the 278th , nor was there any evidence they equipped the 107th.
4) I did see in some of the NG Annual Reports from the mid and late 70s, some evidence that the 163 ACR from Montana DID operate Sheridans along with the M-48A5s . I never saw any evidence that the 116th from Idaho used the Sheridan .
5) The last Guard unit to turn in their Sheridans was the Cav troop for the 39th Infantry Brigade from Arkansas in about 1981 .
6) The first Guard unit to get Sheridans was the old Cab squadron for the 30th Infantry Division (Mechanized) made up of brigades from Ga,SC and NC . They traded the old M-41s for the Sheridans about 1970 . The division was broken apart in 1973 and its components became the 30th Inf Bde (M) NC, 218th INF BDE (M) SC, and 48th INF BDE (M) GA.
When the 48th became the roundout brigade for the 24th ID , the Sheridans were long gone .

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Re: Armored Cav?

Post by panzergator »

So the scout section of each platoon would have been 2 M113s and 2 M150s or 2 M901s.

This has been an interesting exploration.
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Re: Armored Cav?

Post by Roger H »

That’s how I saw it .

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Re: Armored Cav?

Post by Brigade Commander »

While I am finishing up the second Mech battalion for the 1st Brigade I am looking ahead to the Divisional Cavalry squadron. Except for a few special vehicles here or there that should allow me to close out the 1st Brigade. Please correct me where I am in error.
panzergator wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:09 am

The transition to J series called for a divisional ground cavalry squadron of 2 troops assigned to the 4th (Aviation) brigade, each troop consisting of 3 platoons of 6 M3s each, plus an M3 in each troop hq.
From what I have found they would also have a mortar platoon of three 81mm. Would the platoon also have had a M-577 for a FDC at this time?

Would the Medical platoon be a full Medical platoon as in an armored battalion or more of a strictly evacuation platoon?
panzergator wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:09 am

I havent addressed aviation assets because I haven't gotten the books out for this.
From the sources I have found: six or seven scout helicopters and four attack helicopters in each Air Troop.
panzergator wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:09 am

The divcav squadrons were plussed with a variety of combinations of a third troop and tanks for First Gulf and at some point after, all cav was standardized on the ACR troop organization. Don't know when, and Roble may have to correct some of the above.
Seems to be part and parcel with the Series-L (AoE) transition. Only one place did I see a time-frame for this change and it indicated 93~95. Have no idea if that matched the Real World. Any confirmation or correction would be appreciated.

Will head to the Divisional Cavalry squadron next then at the same time complete the 3rd AD Artillery brigade and the 4-27 FA (MLRS) in the 41st FA Brigade of V Corp. Gives me one full MLRS battalion along with three M-109 battalions and one M-110 battalion plus the MLRS battery.
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panzergator
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Re: Armored Cav?

Post by panzergator »

Yes teach troop had 3 4.2in mortars. The M577 was for the troop commander, not the mortar section.

In regimental cav, the mortar were TOE the platoons. In divisional cav, they were TOE the troop.

That was all a long time ago. Seems to me there is sufficient justification for resurrecting AirLand Battle and its TOE organization, now that the Army has remembered its responsibility to fight general wars against peer nations, rather than convenient, political, splendid little wars for personal reasons. Even considering Ukraine, air land is a good place to start, but new weapons and equipment must go with that, just as M1, M2, M109A2, AH64, UH60, and TOW were developed in the 70s for ALB in the 80s. The Armor School will have to find a way to get out of Benning/Moore to do it, and Armor will have to find another Donn Starry, too. Neither the Infantry School nor Ft Leavenworth wanted any part of ALB when Gen. DePuy asked them. That's why Starry was sent to the Armor Center - because he wanted it and knew the Armor folks he wanted for the project. Once it got going, THEN folks at Leavenworth chimed in, but you don't hear about that today. As always, ARMOR LED THE WAY. The "Follow Me" boys followed.
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Re: Armored Cav?

Post by Brigade Commander »

When I finally decided the next project to start once 3-36 Inf(M) was completed was going to be the Divisional Cavalry squadron, since I do not have a Series-J for it, I started reading articles on-line about any discussion on the Divisional Cavalry around that time. Knowing that the TO&E would eventually arrive at the same as the current Regimental TO&E I was going to bend time and go with mixed M-1 / M-3 troop structure. But I was really trying to stay as close to period as I could so read what I could find and I was initially surprised that there were no tanks in the entire Series-J squadron since all of the TO&Es before and also after have the units with them. Also there were five dismounts instead of the later two dismounts. The rationale that came out of the back-and-forth between the HQDA, the Combined Arms Center and the Armor Center was really enlightening. I get how, and why, they got where they did. I am not sure if I was in a unit I would have been ecstatic with no tanks handy but it would do the job of keeping the unit from being treated just like any other combat unit and sent off on any and all, none scouting missions, and focusing everyone on scouting and trying to avoid being counter-detected and drawn into battle. As it is said: He who wins the reconnaissance...

Yeah, I know. This may end up being before my Corp MLRS battalion. I am thinking that much about it. Cannot believe twenty-seven launchers, thirty-six HEMMTs and thirty-six HEMATs are left waiting. Priorities, Priorities, Priorities. Microarmor modeling is a fickle mistress.
"It is a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step into the road and, if you do not keep your feet, there is no telling where you might be swept off to."

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panzergator
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Re: Armored Cav?

Post by panzergator »

Original J series div cav called for 2 ground troops of 19 M3s; 1 for troop car and 18 divided into 3 platoons of 6. Each troop had a mortar. For Desert Storm, div cavs were plussed up Willy nilly. Some got enough tanks to go to the regimental organization of 3 troops, each with 2 M3 platoons and 2 M1 platoons. Others got 1 to 3 M1 platoons added. Luck of the draw.
Last edited by panzergator on Fri Apr 07, 2023 5:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Armored Cav?

Post by Hoth_902 »

PANZER!!!!! Your still out there. It warms my heart to see you imparting wisdom.
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panzergator
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Re: Armored Cav?

Post by panzergator »

Yes. Just don't have much to contribute.
All blessings flow from a good mission statement.
Pogo was right. So was Ike.
"A Gentleman is a man who is only rude intentionally." (Churchill)
Give credit. Take responsibility.

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