Tank Emplacements

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Hoth_902
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Tank Emplacements

Post by Hoth_902 »

Since some of the Old guard are not as active on this site, sadly, I thought I would start making more contributions to try and breath some new life into things. That is not to take away from PMskaar, Beagle, wild bill, and others that still do regularly make contributions. Just wanted help out with what they do and provide a less skilled contribution.

With that said, I have had a set of tank emplacements for a while and have done nothing more than prime them. Well today, to break up painting far too many treads, I decided to be courageous. This is the result. 1 Tank emplacement. See below.

Image

Now I know that dirt is different everywhere and some is darker than others. I think this looks like some nice northwest dirt that has been plowed up. I am thinking on putting a black wash on it, once its done and maybe lighten up the color a bit and dry brush it. Still have the Barrels to paint and another layer of the earth color. This was painted with Vallejo Flat Earth 70.983.

welcome any comments and suggestions.
Last edited by Hoth_902 on Sun Jun 26, 2022 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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panzergator
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Re: Tank Emplacements

Post by panzergator »

very nice and neat, if you are on a gunnery range. remember, however, that spoil will mark your position as well as a light. camo and concealment is just as important. at the battle of 73 easting, iraqi tanks were dug in. us tanks killed them where they hid. too neat and you get picked off by helos. straight lines stand out against nature. patterns stand out, as well.
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Hoth_902
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Re: Tank Emplacements

Post by Hoth_902 »

So what your saying is, that you think the dirt color is really spot on.... LOL.

I could not argue with your assessment. Placing this in the middle of an open area would spell doom. I have been tossing around the idea of gluing some ground cover on spoils pile. Full disclosure, I would probably only use these types of positions, for tanks, in a tree line or to fortify positions in the defense of a city or town. Even in that case, I would probably use a similar approach, as I read in the Team Yankee novel, and have multiple position for each tanks. Fire, pull out of that position and relocate to another and fire again. Overall, I like to use tanks as they were intended. Mobile units.

As for the battle of 73 easting, I am very familiar with that gulf war battle. I first read about that battle in Tom Clancy's book ACR. Which by the way is when i fell in love with the ACRs in general. O and its the first and only full scale unit I have in my collection. Three full squadrons, attached Tank company and M109 artillery. In addition to that book, I have watched the Greatest Tank battles episode on that battle, only a million times.


Side bar, Why is that the only tank battle they talk about in the gulf war? I have heard about some battles the Marines and British had. They should do some documentaries about them.
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redleg
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Re: Tank Emplacements

Post by redleg »

I like it! And it kind of blends in with your marble countertop too! You definitely need primary, alternate, and supplementary positions but I can see it being used in a game. They would be great for a fire base too! Those who served in Korea will remember that fighting positions like this are all over the place there, though I recall that most of them were made from old tires. I think I might have a few pics of them in a footlocker somewhere. I'll see if I can dig them up.

In regard to Desert Storm, I recently finished reading Desert Redleg which focuses on the artillery part, but it does briefly mention several other battles that 1st ID and VII Corps fought. There must be other books out there that go into more detail on the other battles. I spoke to HR McMaster a couple times back in the day when I was a young captain in G3 plans and he was our DivCav commander. He never let anyone forget about 73 Easting. HUGE ego on that guy, but I guess he's entitled to it!
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panzergator
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Re: Tank Emplacements

Post by panzergator »

ACR tank companies were lettered companies of J series TOE squadrons, not attached.
All blessings flow from a good mission statement.
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"A Gentleman is a man who is only rude intentionally." (Churchill)
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Hoth_902
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Re: Tank Emplacements

Post by Hoth_902 »

So, military speak is my second language and I am not that good at it, if I am honest. So are you saying they were never attached to the squadrons or just in the J series TO&E? My only reference is TOM Clancy's ACR Book and it shows a company of tanks attached to the Squadron in addition to each troop having two platoons. Was that just meant to be attached when needed or was it in the organization structure.. Tomorrow I can get a picture of what I am referring too.
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BurtWolf
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Re: Tank Emplacements

Post by BurtWolf »

It looks cool Hoth, great work - I’d consider adding some flocking or even some bits and bobs like packs or tarps that the crew may have left up on the berm.

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Re: Tank Emplacements

Post by Brigade Commander »

Hoth_902 wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 3:29 am
So, military speak is my second language and I am not that good at it, if I am honest. So are you saying they were never attached to the squadrons or just in the J series TO&E? My only reference is TOM Clancy's ACR Book and it shows a company of tanks attached to the Squadron in addition to each troop having two platoons. Was that just meant to be attached when needed or was it in the organization structure.. Tomorrow I can get a picture of what I am referring too.
Trying this from the desktop. Tried twice from the phone earlier and each time my connection crashed while typing my reply. So an email has been sent as well.

The three ACR Armored Cav Squadrons had the three Armored Cav Troops (two Scout and two Tank platoons each), one Tank Company and one Artillery Battery organic to the squadron. Giving five company-sized units fielded.

The Regiment had three Armored Cav Squadrons, the Aviation Squadron and the Support Squadron. Then just like a heavy brigade (from say the 3rd AD) they would have an Engineer Battalion, MP Company, Chemical Company, ADA Battery and an MI Company. Makes it about a third to a half larger than a heavy brigade (from say the 3rd AD). Lot more vehicles but not as many people. Scouts only no Mech Inf. So two dismounts per track (Scouts) vs six per track (Mech Inf). Hope this helps.
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pmskaar
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Re: Tank Emplacements

Post by pmskaar »

Those tank emplacements look really good, Hoth! If these were prepared well in advance I do believe that attempts would be made to make them blend in with the surrounding terrain.

For gaming purposes, you can leave them as is without any additional foliage. Just let everyone know at the start if the emplacement provides an element of concealment in addition to cover. I think they look fine as is but feel free to embellish if you think you need to do that.

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Re: Tank Emplacements

Post by pmskaar »

What did you use for the 55 gallon drums that line the emplacement. At least they look like 55 gallon drums to my eye.

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Re: Tank Emplacements

Post by Brigade Commander »

pmskaar wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 6:59 am
What did you use for the 55 gallon drums that line the emplacement. At least they look like 55 gallon drums to my eye.
We will have to wait to find out what Hoth used but there is at least one vendor on Shapeways that makes 55 gallon drums in 1:285. I have a few packs. Trying to decide how to do some loads for the HEMTT's. Thinking about basing 55 gallon drums and stacks of cartons, which I have ten packs of, on thin sheet styrene so they can be dropped into and removed from the cargo bed to either be headed forward loaded or back to the FSB Transfer Points for reloads.
"It is a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step into the road and, if you do not keep your feet, there is no telling where you might be swept off to."

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redleg
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Re: Tank Emplacements

Post by redleg »

Hoth, the military does have it's own language and it gets kind of confusing sometimes. Doctrinally, the word "attached" implies a temporary relationship. For example, an infantry battalion might have a tank company "attached" for a specific mission, but then when it's over the tank company will return to its parent unit.

I know what you are trying to say with the armored cavalry squadron's tank company. From a doctrinal perspective, the tank company is referred to as "assigned" to the squadron, or even as "organic" to the squadron. If you want to go full nerd you can reference FM 101-5-1 (Operational Terms and Graphics) for the exact definitions. Here is a table from FM101-5 (Staff Organization and Operations) that illustrates the Army logic behind units being assigned vs attached vs OPCON. Also relationships like direct support vs general support vs reinforcing, etc.

Image
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Hoth_902
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Re: Tank Emplacements

Post by Hoth_902 »

Wow. I slip away to watch the grand kids and things go crazy.

First things first. I in no way, sadly, built these emplacements from scratch. I bought them. If you want more info, PM me. They are pre sculpted resin models that come grey. However, I think they would be easy enough to build. May try something in the future. All I did it prime them and put some brown paint on them. Wish I had made them. I like the idea of adding a few things to them. I think some patches of grass would be cool, or a shrub at the base. Thanks for the ideas to make them better. Pmskaar, I agree, they are good for a game as is. That was my intention to throw them down and inform if they are camouflaged.

Tomorrow I will post my reference chart I am using for my squadron organization. Then you guys can teach me the right terminology.
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panzergator
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Re: Tank Emplacements

Post by panzergator »

On cavalry units...

The initial J series TOE for armored cavalry called for 3squadrons of 3 troops per squadron, the troops to consist of 2 scout platoons of 6 M3s each, two tank platoons of 4 M1s each, and 2 M106A2 mortars. plus ancillaries. Troop headquarters included a tank, an M3, an M577, and ancilaries. The squadron also had an ORGANIC tank company of 14 M1s and a howitzer battery of 8 155 self propelled howitzers. All of these were TOE to the squadrons/regiment.

The DIVISIONAL cavalry squadron was quite different. First, it was moved to the division's aviation brigade. The ground elements consisted of only two troops, each troop containing 3 platoons of 6 M3s each. Troop headquarters had an M3, an M113, and maybe a 577. There were NO TANKS in this version, either in the platoons or in a tank company, nor was there a how battery. There were 3 M106A2 mortars at troop hq.

DIVISIONAL cavalry squadrons, however, were augmented for Desert Storm, receiving a third troop by pulling one platoon of M3s from each of the original troops, then adding one or two tank platoons to each troop or, in some cases, simply adding a tank company. The result of the DS plusup was the standardization of the cavalry platoon AFTER the war on the ACR model - two platoons of 6 M3s and two platoons of 4 tanks.

After that some things went stupid and M3s were replaced by HUMVEEs in bn scout platoons, etc. but I stop following once combined arms battalions and HUMVEE scouts starts.

There are more details, but this is the basic info.
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Hoth_902
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Re: Tank Emplacements

Post by Hoth_902 »

Mine is the first one you stated and that is what is found in Tom Clancy's book
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