AAR: Eastern Front 1943 **BANDWIDTH HOG**

[Mk 1]

This is a wargame we fought out at my home this past weekend.

Our battlefield was on the northern portion of the Eastern Front, in the spring of 1943.

C.G. Erickson provided the battle terrain. He makes marvelous game boards. These are his newest. He has finished only four in the series so far. 18 total are planned. They are 1 x 2 foot boards, built up with foam on top of birch plywood.

He also provided the German tanks. Beautiful they were, too. Almost a shame to shoot 'em up. Not actually shame, but almost...

The rules were ODGW's Mein Panzer. Special thanks to PMSkaar for his help in getting me up on these rules. The game ground scale was 1 inch = 50 yards. Unit scale was 1-to-1 (one tank model = 1 tank).

And so we see our battlefield.

We are looking from the South. The paved road runs across from east to west, then northward up the west side of the board. There is a dirt road running south to north along the eastern edge of the board. There are two sets of ridges between these roads. The higher steeper ridge to the east run only halfway from north to south. The lower gentle ridge line to the west run up the whole length of the board, but with several passes. Running down the norther half of the board there is a little valley between the ridges. A logging trail cuts across the high ridge from the eastern dirt road.

In our battles, we use paper "chits" for the units until they have been spotted. Players often also get some extra blank chits to move as if they were units. Using this technique screening forces, recon, reserves, and bluffing all become much more common in wargaming.


Here we see the Germans coming on the board along the roads, seen from the northwest corner. Germans started with one platoon of 4 Pz IIILs and one platoon of 4 StuG IIIGs. Soviets did not know what forces the Germans had.


Soviets are coming on, as seen from the southeast corner. Two commands: A short company of T-34s, two platoons of 3 each, and a company commander; and a company of KV-1s, two plattons of 2 each with a company commander.

One platoon of T-34s, and the company commander, came on along the dirt road from the south edge, seen in the foreground. All of the KVs came in cross-country from the east, with the southernmost flank along the road. The second platoon of T-34s came on a bit to the north, seen here in the distance.


The chits start shadow-boxing, as each side maneuvers without knowing the enemy's true strength. Germans pushed StuGs down the road, and took Pz IIIs (seen here) into the small valley. Soviets maneuvered the second platoon of T-34s along the opposite side of the ridge, looking for the logging road.


The StuGs advance southward down the road.


Which just happens to be the same road the Soviet's first platoon of T-34s and company CO are orienting on.


The StuGs draw the first blood.


(more to come...)

[Mk 1]

The T-34s maneuver for position along the low ridge.


Now the StuGs have another problem. Note the KVs in the distance, drawing their attention from the T-34s!


This is becoming an unhealthy environment. This StuG was disabled by the T-34s, and then killed by a flank shot from the KVs.


And the KVs advance.


The first platoon of T-34s make a dash across the road.


One is hit by a StuG. The vehicle is not damaged, but the crew is disoriented by the hit, and the tank roles to a stop in just the wrong place.


Where it is hit again, with more permanent results.


But the remaining T-34s advance, stunning, and later killing, the StuG in the road.

The surviving StuGs now face T-34s to their front, and KVs to their side, and start pulling back.

(more...)

[Mk 1]

(cont'd)


In the meantime, to the north and east ...


The Pz IIIs are moving up the small valley, carefully picking their way through the trees.


While the KVs have decided to do just the same.


Hmmm, I wonder what's up there?


Nevermind!


Speedbump? Comrade, I did NOT feel a speedbump. What speedbump do you speak of?
(Notice that 3 KVs advance. That is one platoon, plus company CO. I wonder what the other two are doing?)


The Germans have to worry not only about the KVs, but also the problem of the T-34s finding their way up to the top of the ridge along that logging trail.


T-34s have successfully turned the Pz III's flank. They now hold the high ground.


While the KVs are still advancing to their front.


The Germans try to pull back, but lose another Pz III in the process. In the meantime, the StuGs are fighting, and dying, on the road.

The situation is grave.

(more ...)

[Mk 1]

(cont'd)

At this critical juncture, the re-inforcements arrived! (Three more players showed up to join the fun.)

A new German playercame on with a platoon of 4 Pz IVf2s, and a platoon of 4 TIGERS!

At the same time, two new Soviet players came on with another short company of T-34s, and a short company of T-70s (each with 2 platoons of 3, and a company CO).


The Germans split their new forces along the same lines as they initially had -- heavier armor down the road, lighter armor into the little valley. The Tigers went south on the road, and while the Pz IVs diverted towards the east. As they had been giving ground for much of the game, the action was already in the German's backyard, and the Pz IVs found themselves in action almost immediately.


A furious exchange of gunfire, and the Pz IVs find themselves on the short end of the stick vs. the KVs.


Soon a single Pz IV remains, sheltering behind the trees. A KV has been immobilized, but there is no stopping the Soviet juggernaut at this end of the board.


South down the road, perhaps a different story will be told. The Tigers advance past the wreckage of their compatriots.


A T-34 TC says: "Shhh, maybe if we're very quiet, they won't notice us..."


GONG! Wrong answer! Thank you for playing. Next?


The Tigers set to work merrily chopping up T-34s.


Oh look! We found the other KVs! At less than 6 inches (300 yards), the Tigers discover that their sides are indeed vulnerable. The lead Tiger dies just west of the road.


And then just as suddenly, more T-34s arrive on the scene, and charge headlong at the Tigers. The next Tiger down the line, in the middle of the road, happens to make a particularly bad throw at this moment, and his gun is jammed! At a range less than 100 yards, we find that T-34s can penetrate even the frontal armor of the Tigers.

(more ...)

[Mk 1]

(cont'd)


Now it is the Tigers' turn to try to withdraw.


But of course Tigers are not optimized for running. They are not faster than T-34s, much less than 76.2mm AP rounds, and their backsides are even MORE vulnerable.


The last Tiger turns to make his stand. It was a brief and futile gesture.

The bells rang in Moscow that evening. I hope a good time was had by all.

This was a test game of the ODGW rules. We started with the "basic" rules, with only three of us, all experienced gamers. We found them playable, but not entirely satisfying. Two issues bothered us -- while range affected the accuracy of guns, range had no affect on the penetration of an AP round, and it was entirely too easy to be killed when you were in an ambush position. To this point, the German player positioned a Pz III to watch the logging road, but the T-34s managed to crest the rise and kill the Pz III before it got a shot off. Both sides agreed that was what the rules provided, but it just didn't seem quite right.

So at that point we switched to the advanced rules. We found these to be quite a bit more satisfying. Range affected both accuracy and penetration. And vehicles in overwatch got reaction fire to targets that entered their observed zones. This allowed the StuG to catch the T-34 crossing the road. As with our prior rules, it was now clear that if you charge a stationary unit (on overwatch), you get chopped up. With crew-quality modifiers, a stationary veteran unit on overwatch will be a particularly dangerous opponent.

I like the Eastern Front from '41 to '43 as a test of wargaming rules. The challenge for rules makers is how to reconcile the superiority of Russian tanks with the actual historical results. I feel too many rulesets discount Soviet armor and guns. I found that these rules fit my own notions better than most -- in 1943 Soviet armor was still strong, and Soviet guns were adequate (particularly at close range). But there is much room in these rules to replicate German successes, as every shot starts with a base number which is set according to crew quality, and is then modified by the details of the gun, the ammunition, and the situation. Better quality troops can do much to redress deficiencies in equipment.

In our game the German tanks shot more accurately, and more often, than the Soviet tanks did. But the battlefield was small, and the fighting took place at close quarters, where the Soviets' number carried the day. On the open steppe, it might have been a very different story. So we have more reason to play again, and soon!

-Mark 1

[BattlerBritain]

Oh Wow!!

Fantastic write up - just love it.

Pictures, scenery, vehicles, rules - all great.

Pity it's only about 6,000 miles from my house to yours - I'd pop round for a game.

Quick question - the rules you used (ODGW rules) - I don't recognise the abbreviation OGDW. What does it stand for and where can you get a copy of them?

Many thanks for posting - I'll be re-reading this thread for a while.

Cheers,

Battler

[Mk 1]

Oh Wow!!
Pity it's only about 6,000 miles from my house to yours - I'd pop round for a game.

Yeah, sure, y' oughta drop on by if you're cruising in the neighborhood!


For this particular engagement, the Russians won on the beer, too! Dinkel Acker ("Die Mercedes von Biers!") is an old favorite of mine, but that Baltika 9 turns out to be pretty darned good! You are, of course, welcome to bring your own choice of contestants!

Quick question - the rules you used (ODGW rules) - I don't recognise the abbreviation OGDW. What does it stand for and where can you get a copy of them?

Old Dominion Gameworks. They have a website. The rules are occasionally seen in hobby shops too.

It is a pricey ruleset. Claims to span from WW1 through WW2 and Korea, to Vietnam, Cold War, and current Modern. You just buy new modules for each theater / timeframe you want to game.

Basic rules set me back about $30. They come with some minimal amount of troop data. If you want lots of choices in your selection, you buy the modules. As examples, the WW2 module costs about $35, while the Spanish Civil War goes for about $20. If you want all the modules -- the works -- its about $125! Yikes!

It's not that the price is too too high (it IS high), its that I really didn't want to spend that much for yet another set I didn't like. I've already got about 8 WW2 rulesets, and about 5 Cold War / Modern rulesets, laying around on my shelves. So out of the 5 or so guys I game with, I ponied up for the basic rules, but no add-on module. PMSkaar was kind enough to send me a "player sheet" for some particular vehicles. That allowed us to run a test game.

I kind of like the rules. This was the first game we played through to a conclusion in a long time. Now, admittedly we played tanks only, with relatively small forces on a very small board. Still my guess is that we played about 10 or 15% faster per turn than we would with our prior set, and we had almost a year's practice on those.

Perhaps more importantly, with these rules you activate a platoon per player at a time, rather than one side doing ALL their stuff, then the other side doing ALL their stuff. The by-platoon activation makes it harder to engineer your moves to match the turn boundries (you don't know which enemy units will move/shoot next), and more importantly everyone is playing most of the time, rather than waiting for the other guy's turn to finish. So even if it isn't playing a lot faster, it feels like it. There is less down-time for each player.

One feature I like is the possibility of low-probability events. The rules use D20s for almost all throws, instead of D6s. So you CAN knock out a tank that has really good armor, but your chances are low. Or you can FAIL to knock-out a tank that you really have the gun to kill. But more likely you'll kill it. Also, tanks can be immobilized, or the crews can be stunned, even if the tank is not knocked-out. This better tracks my own readings of WW2 tank warfare. Yet the damage is all on one table, achieved with one throw.

For our next game we'll scale up the board, take at least a re-inforced company each, and add some infantry and indirect fire resources. Then we'll really know how playable they are. But so far, I'm hopeful.

All of the gamers in our group would like to do modern wargaming too. But we are sticking to WW2 until we can find at least ONE set of rules we like. If these rules work out, we'll have a single system that also allows us to play moderns. That would be VERY nice. For rules that I actually like, and rules that span from WW2 to modern, the price wouldn't be quite so bad...

[Ritter]

And then just as suddenly, more T-34s arrive on the scene, and charge headlong at the Tigers. The next Tiger down the line, in the middle of the road, happens to make a particularly bad throw at this moment, and his gun is jammed! At a range less than 100 yards, we find that T-34s can penetrate even the frontal armor of the Tigers.

Great battle report and nice pics! Also some beautiful boards there!

One picky point - I almost hate to but...

The T-34 model 1941 through 1943 (all with the 76.2mm F34 L/41.5 main gun) using standard quality (read poor) AP ammunition at 100 meters, (using Schwere Kompanie rules) has a Kill number of 13 (adjusted for range effects on penatration with 2D6). The early model Tiger has frontal hull armour of 11 and turret armor of 17. Assuming a hull hit, the T34 would have a 2.78 % chance of penatrating the Tigers hull. 8.33% chance of the Tigers crew taking a Break test. The chance for suppressing the Tigers crew would be 11.11%

Using APCR (50% chance of this being available) the T34 would move up to a whopping 11.11% kill!

Still a VERY unlikely happening. And the turret...forget about it!

Although there is always a potential of a chance hit in the vitals (2.78% of the time with S.K.) the data I have collected gives a T34 a VERY slim chance of popping a tiger frontally at any range .

Do you recall the situation that the T34 K.O.ed the Tiger? Was it a hull/turret hit and with which type of ammo - or does the rules not allow for this detail?

I normally dont like to get into the debates on stats/ this tank vs that one but am more curious of the rules themselves.

Troy

[Mk 1]

One picky point - I almost hate to but...

The T-34 model 1941 through 1943 (all with the 76.2mm F34 L/41.5 main gun) using standard quality (read poor) AP ammunition at 100 meters, (using Schwere Kompanie rules) has a Kill number of 13 (adjusted for range effects on penatration with 2D6). The early model Tiger has frontal hull armour of 11 and turret armor of 17. Assuming a hull hit, the T34 would have a 2.78 % chance of penatrating the Tigers hull. 8.33% chance of the Tigers crew taking a Break test. The chance for suppressing the Tigers crew would be 11.11%

Using APCR (50% chance of this being available) the T34 would move up to a whopping 11.11% kill!

Yeah, I'm still not too sure about that either.


I'll look up the specifics in the rules later tonight, and edit some data into this spot as a reference.

Still a VERY unlikely happening. And the turret...forget about it!

Agree about the "unlikely" bit. But the same applies for the turret. Unlikely. Just MORE unlikely.

In neither case (hull nor turret) does the Tiger have present an "uncompromised" plate. There are openings for the hull MG and the driver's direct vision block on the hull front (and the co-ax and gunner's direct sight on the turret). Either of those will not only be a target in themselves, but (important in the case of the hull) will have an "edge effect" area around them where the armor is more subject to penetration.

Still rather unlikely. But perhaps possible. Probably should have been less likely for a full kill than the rules provided, and still highly unlikely for an immobilize or a suppress. But those were the rules.

I seem to recall a case in Crisp's "Brazen Chariots", where his Stuart is hit by a non-penetrating round, which drives a rivet through his gunner's leg, and when he falls off of his seat he pulls the plug out of the intercom set. Suddenly the tank could neither shoot, nor move (as the TC has no comms with the driver). Strange things DO happen in combat, and even a gun that does not penetrate can do harm to tanks.

... the data I have collected gives a T34 a VERY slim chance of popping a tiger frontally at any range .

Agreed.

Do you recall the situation that the T34 K.O.ed the Tiger? Was it a hull/turret hit and with which type of ammo - or does the rules not allow for this detail?

The rules do not distinguish between hull and turret (much less what part of the hull, turret, or running gear) were hit. Only frontal, and a probability. The rules DO provide for "high quality AP", "low quality AP", "HVAP", "APDS", or "HEAT". We used "low quality AP".

We gave the Germans APCR for their Pz III's 50mm, and the Soviets got it for their T-70's 45mm. But not for the Soviet T-34 or KV's 76.2mm guns. By that time we should be using BR-350B projectiles, which have a reasonable chance of perforating 80 to 90mm of vertical plate at 100m range. But 100mm plate ... ?

[pmskaar]

Hey MK1

Great writeup and great pictures of the game. Thanks for mentioning my name in the credits. I'm glad you and your group enjoyed the game overall.
I enjoy Mein Panzer quite a bit and use the advanced rules now exclusively. I have a solid core of players, 3 to 4 that will play this game regularly and a couple of others here in the Phoenix area that have played it and enjoyed it. Several of these people are FOW players that actually enjoy this set of rules quite a bit.
The good news here is that I have basically recruited these people into micro armor. One guy named Rich is very enthusiastic and has now become a regular GHQ customer and several of the others recently purchased GHQ micro armor as well.
The way I did it was to run my games at Imperial Outpost Games here in Phoenix with my vehicles and terrain. I do very much believe that if you do a game that looks good they will come. I'm not trying to toot my own horn here too much but this has been a successful project for me. By the way, Imperial Outpost now carries some of the GHQ boxed sets as well as the rules for Micro Armor the Game, both WWII and Modern as of last week. Maybe I should start a thread called "It's Glad Really" in contrast to the recent thread "It's Sad Really" which seems to be all too true these days of store closings or dumping micro armor. Also, the guys that are playing range in age from 55 or so down to 25 with several of the players in the younger category - and you thought the hobby was going gray.
I think Mein Panzer is a good set of rules for 1 to 1 tank scale overall and like all historical players we all have our favorite vehicle which we think should be better or an enemy vehicle which should not be as good as the game portrays it. Of course the vehicle stats can be modified to adjust to taste.
Well I got a bit long winded here but just wanted to express my views. Great game and writeup Mark.

Pete - Binpicker, Out

[Mk 1]

I'm glad you guys are enjoying the write-up.

It ain't that hard to do, you know. Most of the effort was in cropping a bunch of pictures. I also resized them to 800 or 640 wide, but it seems that photobucket down-sized 'em all for me again automatically. (Except for the pic of the two KVs comin' right at ya. Guess photobucket likes my KVs as much as I do!)

Once I had my cropped pics done, I chose a set of 'em, and uploaded 'em. Then the "write-up" was pretty much just putting captions to the pics.

We find it easy to take lots of pics during our games. While a couple of guys are looking at charts and tossing dice, another guy is taking a pic of whatever he finds interesting. So long as you have more than 1 guy who can operate the camera, you get lots of nice pics. In digital cameras, film is free, you know.

So c'mon guys! I like to read 'em as much as YOU do. As JB says I say: More, MORE, MORE!

[Mobius]

I have 76mm APCR coming into play 10/43.and the BR-350A in 5/43 and BR-350B in 10/43. But I usually add a month or two after first manufacture to filter to the front.

[jb]

Nice presentation Mk1,you are truly a Wargame Corespondent.

[thetourist]

Great pics! Looks like a great game. I'll be interested to see how infantry fit in with the rule set.

[Mk 1]

The T-34 model 1941 through 1943 (all with the 76.2mm F34 L/41.5 main gun) using standard quality (read poor) AP ammunition at 100 meters, (using Schwere Kompanie rules) has a Kill number of 13 (adjusted for range effects on penatration with 2D6). The early model Tiger has frontal hull armour of 11 and turret armor of 17. ...

I'll look up the specifics in the rules later tonight, and edit some data into this spot as a reference.

So I've now reviewed the Mein Panzer rules regarding the frontal shots on the Tiger.

The rules give the Tiger a frontal armor value of 11. (11 what is not specified.)

The rules give the T-34's 76.2mm gun an AP value of 8. (Again no details on 8 what.)

If I look through the other stats, I get the impression that the units used are centimeters of vertical RHA equivelance. Using that hypothesis, the rules provide the Tiger (~10 cm glacis and nose) with 11 cm RHA equivelant protection. That could be due to the superior quality of Tiger armor (actually the best steel used in German tank production), or it could be an averaging with the turret front, which should have ~12 to 16cm equivelant depending on which part. By comparison, the Pz IIIL rates 7 frontal armor, which reads well on this hypothesis as 7cm RHA.

Penetration of 8 cm for the Soviet 76.2mm seems about right.

Except ...

The rules give a +2 to the penetration for being under 100 yards range. So we had a setting of 10 penetration vs. 11 armor, for a damage value of -1. Reading on the -1 line and making a reasonably lucky throw, a kill was achieved. We mark the tank with flames, but the rules don't specify that it brewed-up, only that it was out of action. Maybe the drive sprocket was shot off and the crew abandoned it, maybe the round went through the MG mount, the co-driver, and the gunner. We don't know. We only know it was out of action.

I don't think it was too far off. But perhaps a bit off. Given the +2 add for close range, I'm thinking that the T-34's (and KV's) gun may be a bit over-rated. Maybe better as a 7 than an 8, since most test data places the BR-350A or B at somewhere between 92 to 74mm of vertical RHA penetration at ranges of 100 to 500 yards/meters. I've never seen any data suggesting it could penetrate 100mm RHA at any range.

And the Tiger may be better served by a frontal value of 12 rather than 11. I'm less certain on that, as I don't know how the "average" value of a facing (combining all aspects from the facing) is computed in these rules.

Maybe we'll try under these mods and see if we like it better.