Help with Russians

[suplicor]

I need info on Soviet military structure,espicially the structure of their armor units.A friend of mine is developing a game with Micro Armor tanks,and I'm playing Russia.The game is based at the end of the cold war,and I'm limited to T-72s and T-80s,for now.
What I need to know is how many tanks in a platoon and how many platoons in a company.He told me I would have the most tanks on the table,and I would be limited to 1 T-80 per 2 T-72s.Any info is appreciated,thanx.

[JMD]

Soviet tank companies from tank divisions are 3 platoons of 3 with 1 HQ tank. Total 10

Soviet tank companies from motor rifle divisions are 3 platoons of 4 with 1 HQ tank. Toatl 13

Based on past experience, you will need as many tanks as you can field, not to mention artillery.

-JMD.

[groundlber]

Stepping up one level, a Soviet Tank battalion would have three companies of tanks, plus one additional as part of the small battalion headquarters. A Soviet tank regiment would have three tank battalions, a battalion of motor infantry in BMP's or BTR's, a battalion of SP 122's, and assorted support assets.
Some advice from a former 'designated red' player: don't use Soviet forces like NATO forces. You'll have a sledgehammer, not a scroll saw. Pick out NATO units and pound them with everyting you've got. Then pound the next one. Oh yeah, keep advancing! If your unit is wiped out but destroys the defenders, the next echelon will be able to advance to victory over your battlefield.
Good luck. Forward to Victory!
Groundlber

[Mickel]

I'd be a little wary of the T-80 to T-72 ratio. It will depend on the level you're playing at, but there was a thread on tanknet a while back that was kicked off by a Russian who said that T-72s were NOT deployed outside of Russia, so wouldn't be in the same divisions as T-80s. Since you'll be facing wall to wall 120mm sabot and missiles you'll be wanting as few T-72s as you can get away with.

[Mk 1]

Agree with Mickel.

If your game is placed in central Europe (the inter-German border, plus most of the Czech and Hungarian borders), you should not be fielding T-72s. Unless your scenario is set several days after the opening of hostilities, when strategic reserves may be arriving on the battlefield from the internal Soviet military districts.

The GSFG (Group of Soviet Forces, Germany) was equipped with T-64s starting in the late 1960's, and began supplimenting those with T-80s in the early 1980s.

That is, of course, providing that you are playing as a Soviet player.


If you are running tanks as a Polish player, or an East German player, then by all means help yourself to some T-72s! The GHQ model which is described as a T-74 ( ? ) makes a very respectable Soviet T-72A, or export production T-72M1, or T-72S (often used to designate Polish license-produced T-72s supplied to several Warsaw Pact armies).

As to mixing the forces ... the problem is that Soviet units seldom operated a mix of tanks.

Others have highlighted the general organizational structure. Tank Divisions were built-up out of 3's, with HQs on top.

Platoon = 3 tanks
Company = 3 platoons + 1 command tank
Battalion = 3 companies + 1 command tank + 2 or 3 HQ vehicles (one APC, one truck, one jeep)
Regiment = 3 battalions + infantry battalion + artillery battery or battalion + maintenance and supply + HQ

All of the tanks, up to Regiment, would typically be of the same type (with perhaps some variance in sub-model (for example a mix of T-64A's with T-64B's, but NOT a mix of T-64's with T-80's).

There are perhaps two notable exception to this.

First is that some units retained extra companies of obsolete tanks for training and field excercizes. These could well be mobilized in wartime to become active attached companies. So it was possible to find a tank battalion with 31 T-72s and a "mobilization" company of 10 T-62s or T-55s attached. There would never have been a mix of T-80s with T-72s. One might argue for a T-80 battalion with a company of T-64s attached, but that would have been highly unlikely, as the T-64 was never considered "obsolete" during the cold-war.

The second opportunity is one that is more realistic, and will be very hard to decipher on the battlefield to anyone who is knowledgeable on Soviet unit organizations, but expecting the ordinary. That would be a scenario of a Motor Rifle Division exploitation detatchment doing a "pass through the lines". In that case there would probably be a motor rifle force (perhaps a battalion of infantry in APCs, with a company of tanks based on 4-tank platoons, and a battery of SPG in support) that was seeking to engage the last organized line of defense, and then a divisional independant tank battalion that would pass through to exit the table on the opposite side (to go cause as much havoc as possible in the NATO rear areas). The independant tank battalion of a MRD was usually five companies rather than three, sometimes still constructed of platoons of four tanks. It was an exceedingly large tank-only force, and its tanks did not always match the rest of the tanks in the MRRs of the MRD. So you might do a motor rifle battalion with a company of 13 T-80 tanks, and then an independant tank battalion with 51 or 66 T-64s passing through.

THAT would be a pretty big battle, though!

[groundlber]

Suplicor- Don't forget to post an after action report on your game. Those of us perching on Vulture's Row want to know how things turned out.
Groundlber

[Azure]

Dont forget that your T-72s and T-80s can fire AT-4s, which may pack a better whallop at a long range than a russian 125mm AP round (depends on whos rules you use as to how effective they are i suppose)
I also intend to field a Russian army (if i ever get these things all PAINTED!) and we need all the help we can get against hordes of M1A2s and Leo 2s...hmmm...end of the cold war....what year exactly does your friend intend to set the game in? Remember, M1s originally had a 105mm gun, and the Leo 2 may not have been around....you might just be on the "stronger" side, depending on the year.

[Ben]

Hi,

have to say the T-72/T-80 do not fire AT-4 "Spigot"!
The earlier T-80 versions were equipped with AT-8 "Songster", later versions fire the AT-11 "Sniper" (also used with T-90 and if I remember right some variants of the T-72 as well).

Best greetings from Germany!
Cheers Ben

[Azure]

Ah, whatever version it is that they fire...4...8....i cant ever remember what Russian missile is what. I found some data on the later versions of the missile (9M119, and yep, my earlier post was wrong, its the "AT-11" as we have named it) and they claim it is "quite" effective, not only against enemy AFVs, but also against aircraft, claiming "70%" effectiveness. I would like to find more data on it, unfortunately seems the Russians dont do many public tests with their weapons systems.
I do have to say the thing is most likely more effective than most wargaming rules systems say it is, though. If a weapon only worked 1% of the time, who would bother fielding it?