Micronaut Only Thread

[regia-marina]

Since last December I have been repainting little by little my Regia Marina. I was just wondering today as I sat in front of the Trento if I am the only one to do this. Just questioning my sanity I suppose. I would really be curious to know from others on the forum if you have repainted your micronauts at some point.

Many of my ships I originally painted when I was in college and after graduation in the early 90's. As I have acquired books from Italy and elsewhere on the proper paint schemes and of course the advent of the internet, I realized that my paint schemes weren't as accurate as they could be. Has anyone else here gone back and repainted their ships?

[Mikee]

regia-marina,

I did try to repaint - kinda - a few ships once, but not for the same reason you are doing it.
Back in the 90s, before I got into 2400s, I was trying to paint two of those 700 scale U.S carriers in MS-32, using the Floating Drydock paint chips to mix my colors. The mixed paints kept going bad before I could finish, & I never could match the former color with a remix. So, I would paint over what I'd already done so it wouldn't look bad. After about three cycles I got tired of it and quit.

More recently, I had just finished touching up an ms-32 pattern on a 2400 scale DD. I was looking it over to see if I'd missed anything, when I dropped it - - right into the open paint pot!

[regia-marina]

Mikee-
Dropping it into the paint is the worst! I feel for you especially after all that work. This repainting that I've been doing is keeping my shipyard busy and at the end of the day when I am gaming them it does give one a certain pride when their ships look good. Anyway, it's all about enjoying the hobby.

[Mikee]

regia-marina,

Yeah! I was really angry when I dropped the ship into the paint, but it makes for a great story now. Some day I'll have to relate the story, from more than 50 years ago, when I tried to build a large Revell fully-rigged model of the U.S.S. Constitution, with two toddlers in the house. I came SOO Close!

I assume you're repainting your Italian ships in camo patterns (if it is the Italians you're doing). D you have the "B" & "B" book (I can't remember the full names of the authors rt. now) from Italy? I based all of my Italian camo painting on the patterns in the book, using WEM enamel paints. WEM (an English Co.) is out of business, now, although someone in this country was producing at least some of the colors a few years ago, but I still have some colors left over just in case somebody puts out a good (or even halfway decent) Taranto model. Or another Italian DD class!

I'm painting 16 Netherlands ships right now (includes 3 BCs from Shapeways). I had some (poor) pictures of Dutch camo patterns for a few ships, but can't find them now (lost in an 800 sq. ft. apt, no less), so I'm just painting them a neutral light grey. For anyone who's saying: "Dutch Battlecruisers??" right now, they were working on plans for a set of 3 when the Germans invaded. The Dutch ships would have been equivalent to the Scharnhorsts, with three triple 11" turrets.

The last big group of ships I have left to paint is the U.S. DDEs in MS-31 & 32 patterns. Don't know when I'll get around to them,as I need to get cataract surgery first so I can see what I'm doing. Also, I painted a bunch of Fletchers in all their versions of the MS-31/32 patterns, so I'm not that excited about doing the same patterns over again.

[regia-marina]

Yep,I am using the book, La Mimetizzazione delle Navi Italiane 1940-45 (B and B book). You can't go wrong with it. I've also been working on my German ships. I have the 2 volumes of German Naval camo set and have been working through the Kriegsmarine too.

Hey, best of luck with the surgery. It drives me crazy that my eyesight isn't what it once was. I have to use reading glasses and a magnifying lamp to paint now. At any rate I commiserate with you. Please post pictures when your Dutch ships are done. We'd love to see them as well as your DDE's.

[dragon6]

I assume you're repainting your Italian ships in camo patterns (if it is the Italians you're doing). D you have the "B" & "B" book (I can't remember the full names of the authors rt. now) from Italy?

Have you seen "Italian Naval Camouflage of World War II"? Glossy pages, colour camo. Some merchant camouflage. Any opinions on it?

but I still have some colors left over just in case somebody puts out a good (or even halfway decent) Taranto model.

I'm sure you know that Taranto is a German Magdeburg. Have you considered modifying the GHQ WW1 model into Taranto? Be a bit of work

I had some (poor) pictures of Dutch camo patterns for a few ships, but can't find them now (lost in an 800 sq. ft. apt, no less), so I'm just painting them a neutral light grey.

De Ruyter starboard https://i.imgur.com/NggPxq9.jpg De Ruyter port https://img844.imageshack.us/img844/276 ... dships.jpg De Ruyter port https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... Ruyter.jpg

Tromp from starboard sometime before the Battle of the Sunda Strait. Her aft superstructure has been cut back to give Y turret greater traverse. The two twin bofors have been moved to the centerline and the more forward one raised to fire over the aft one. The aft director is raised slightly. The goal post mast has been removed although the starboard post has been retained. It's not after her damage from Sunda Strait as she doesn't have the two three inch guns, no 20mm, no gun tubs on B and Y turrets. I have a another picture, not online, from the book Cruiser HNLMS Tromp. In that photo the goalpost is still present. https://laststandonzombieisland.files.w ... .jpg?w=640
There is another starboard photo https://laststandonzombieisland.files.w ... .jpg?w=479

Java port side https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5107/5636 ... 8984_b.jpg
Java starboard side https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http ... ll.jpg&f=1
Java starboard http://www.netherlandsnavy.nl/Cruisers/ ... _thumb.jpg

Admiralen class Evertsen(?) https://i.imgur.com/QvDySjb.jpg
This is the only camouflaged Dutch destroyer, during the Java campaign, that I have found. Of course there aren't any left after the campaign.

[CG2]

I recommend this book for the Dutch if you haven't got it : https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dutch-Warships ... way&sr=8-5

[dragon6]

I recommend this book for the Dutch if you haven't got it : https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dutch-Warships ... way&sr=8-5

It's unavailable. At least I cannot find a copy, new or used.

Do you have it?

If so is it the source of the drawings with green in the camo? In any actual pictures, far too few, there doesn't appear to be any colours except light grey and dark grey.

I would absolutely love to find the date of the bofors repositioning. Cruiser Tromp has nice photos but the vast majority are prewar and some number post the Java campaign. I think there are fewer than 5 that are near. None of the photos have solid dates. No camouflage means prewar. British camouflage means post campaign.

[CG2]

Yes I do. the illustrations show the light grey as having a greenish tinge to it on the cruisers with the destroyers being a much more standard light grey.The book only says that the Bofors were increased to twins rather than repositioned and for Heemeskerck they were replaced by a quadruple 2pdr when she had her AA refit (apparently caused by the gunnery directing equipment being left behind in Holland making the main armament ineffective!). The quadruple 2pdr was again replaced by 4 twin Bofors later in the war but no date is given.

Tromp seems to have had the Admiralty Standard UK camouflage of light grey with a dark hull bar looking like a shortened hull painted on the sides in 1944/45 and she had Bofors at this point. Between 42 and 44 she had a 3-tone scheme of light grey with dark grey and mid-grey shapes. Before that it seems to be the all-over greenish-tinged light grey.

If you send me a message with an e-mail address I'll try and scan it in and send it to you.

[dragon6]

Yes I do. the illustrations show the light grey as having a greenish tinge to it on the cruisers with the destroyers being a much more standard light grey.The book only says that the Bofors were increased to twins rather than repositioned and for Heemeskerck they were replaced by a quadruple 2pdr when she had her AA refit (apparently caused by the gunnery directing equipment being left behind in Holland making the main armament ineffective!). The quadruple 2pdr was again replaced by 4 twin Bofors later in the war but no date is given.

Tromp seems to have had the Admiralty Standard UK camouflage of light grey with a dark hull bar looking like a shortened hull painted on the sides in 1944/45 and she had Bofors at this point. Between 42 and 44 she had a 3-tone scheme of light grey with dark grey and mid-grey shapes. Before that it seems to be the all-over greenish-tinged light grey.

If you send me a message with an e-mail address I'll try and scan it in and send it to you.

I have read that it has some errors. For example it has a camo pattern for De Ruyter that is incorrect.

Tromp had two twin Bofors from completion. Lots of photos show this.

I traced down a photo of Tromp just before Badung Strait. I had seen it before but without a proper date. This https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/305843/ is the Australian Government Archive. You have to page down some but they identify it as just before Badung Strait. The camo is listed as the common Dutch patterns and only two shades of grey. The Bofors are mounted on the centerline with the forward one superfiring over the aft mount. You can also see the aft superstructure is cut severely providing for increased arc of fire for Y turret.

It doesn't appear that the ships boats on the aft superstructure need moving.

The two positions that stick out on each side on top of the bridge should have a Royal Navy style water cooled twin .50 Vickers mount

I want to modify my GHQ Tromp to be as it was during the Java Campaign.

[Mikee]

QUESTION!!

Does anybody know what color the Dutch warship light guns (and DD main gun barrels) were painted? I can"t really tell from the pictures I have.

Regia-Marina,

I don"t think that the Gods of Practical Jokes want me to get my yes fixed I tottered up to my local optometrist twice last week to get an appt. to confirm that my worsening eyesight IS cataracts, and to get a referral for cataract surgery. (I need to make sure everyone'll accept my insurance). They were closed on Thursday, & had just gone out for lunch on Friday. Maybe the third time will be the charm (I could just call, but that's too easy - & I really need the exercise.) Gotta get the eyes done B4 long, as I'll be 80 next year and will have to renew my driver's license. I may have to wait 'till after my birthday to get my knee replaced, just in case DMV wants meto do a road test.

I'm afraid that my Dutch ships will only be painted a light neutral gray, although I'm thinking of doing that DD pattern that Dragon6 sent. Too hard to see clearly,enough these days, particularly after the morning. I don't have a working camera right now, so I can't get pictures for posting. (Also, only have a flip phone, not a smart phone. That could get me in real trouble if I'm mugged for my "valuable" phone. If I could, I'd like to show off my Italian fleet - all in camo. MY fleet includes the Andrea Doria - in a "fishbone" pattern, painted in light green and that dark blue that someone(s) once thought the Italians used. The fleet also has TWO fleet carriers - Aquila and "Re Umderto" (my idea only) - in some kinda camo pattern. I'd also particularly like to show off my Fletcher DDs. I've painted all of the MS 31 & 32 (and MS12m) patterns, mostly the 'official' drawings, but a few ships have specific variations on specific ships. OTOH, I haven"t done any of the "highlighting", etc. that some of our better modelers can do.

My German fleet is pretty much finished (except for that Gneisenau that came out a few years ago),many in camo, & I've done all The U.K. ships that are available in metal. Most of my U.K. DDs are CinC. It took a long time tp paint their patterns up, so iy's unlikely that I'll be doing them over with GHQ ships. (Incidentally, the aft gunhouses of the CinC N class DDs faced forward, as I remember, as in history, and the GHQ J/K class DDs aft gunhousse correctly faced aft (or vice versa - its been awhile since I looked at them.)

Has anybody ever tried to do the "zebra" pattern, on a 2400 scale ship, that the French carrier Bearn carried?

Another thing I've never done, is to put the striping on carrier decks, partly because I'm a free-hand painter. Those CV deck decals produced by one of our forum members came out pretty much after I'd completed my CVs, Also, I've got 114 or more CVs, CVEs, etc> & I'm too cheap to spend $700 - 800 for decals.

Dragon6 -

Thanks for the dutch camo info. I recognize some of the pictures as what I once had (still do---SOMEWHERE!!) I see that Dutch fleet book doesn't appear to be available, but there is, or used to be , a book store here in Oakland that had a whole lot of used military history books. It used to be a block away from where I worked, but moved sometime after I retired. Afew years ago it was in downtown Oakland, where parking is terrible. but I don't remember where it was or what its name was. Still, if it was accessible it'd be worth a trip to see if it might possibly have that Dutch book.

[StarCruiser]

On the Dutch Destroyers - they appear to follow typical practice on the main guns - hull color. AAA might be hull color or maybe bare metal (for machine guns).

[Mikee]

Thanks for the information, Star Cruiser.

When I submitted my message, the computer didn't seem to enter it, so I thought it hadn't gone through. I was surprised to see it in the Forum when I o0ened it up today.

Question regarding that programmers mantra attached to your emails - is it a modification of a mantra that was in the first "Dune" movie, or did the movie copy & modify he mantra you're posing? [/quote][/list][/code]

[StarCruiser]

Yep - the computer programming community latched onto that right off! I believe it first reared it's ugly head around 1985 - about a year after the David Lynch movie.

[Donald M. Scheef]

UK Destroyer Leaders
Between 1929 and 1945 (a 16-year span) the UK produced 28 lettered classes of destroyers: “A,â€￾ “B,â€￾ “C,â€￾ “D,â€￾ “E,â€￾ “F,â€￾ “G,â€￾ “H,â€￾ “I,â€￾ “J,â€￾ “K,â€￾ “L,â€￾ “M,â€￾ “N,â€￾ “O,â€￾ “P,â€￾ “Q,â€￾ “R,â€￾ “S,â€￾ “T,â€￾ “U,â€￾ “V,â€￾ “W,â€￾ “Z,â€￾ “Ca,â€￾ “Ch,â€￾ Co,â€￾ and “Cr.â€￾ Most of these had eight ships. The “Câ€￾ class had only four ships (mostly due to economic reasons, but justified as a peace measure.) Nine of these classes (“Aâ€￾ through “Iâ€￾) had a separate ninth ship (fifth in the case of “Câ€￾ class) as a ‘flotilla leader.’ For three of these classes (“B,â€￾ “C,â€￾ and “Dâ€￾) the flotilla leader was almost identical to the other ships in the class, differing only in internal fittings and enlargement of superstructure. In the “A,â€￾ “E,â€￾ “F,â€￾ “G,â€￾ “H,â€￾ and “Iâ€￾ classes, the flotilla leader was visibly larger (longer, greater displacement, additional 4.7-inch gun mount) than the other ships. The leaders were all named for famous British naval commanders. These were:
• “Aâ€￾ class – Codrington (Admiral Sir Edward Codrington was at the Battles of Trafalgar and commanded the British fleet at the Battle of Navarino) – Don’t ask why the Brits couldn’t come up with a famous commander whose name started with “A.â€￾ A brief search just for Admirals comes up with Adam, Affleck, Alexander, Allen, Almyer, Alpin, Anson, Arbuthnot, Arbuthnott, Austen, and Ayscough. Likewise for “Bâ€￾ and “C.â€￾
• “Bâ€￾ class – Keith (Admiral the Honourable Sir George Keith Elphinstone) was active during the American War of Independence and the Napoleonic Wars, with several exceptional performances)
• “Câ€￾ class – Kempenfelt (Richard Kempenfelt commanded the victorious British forces at the Second Battle of Ushant. He was known as an innovator, especially of the British Naval signaling system)
• “Dâ€￾ class – Duncan (Admiral Adam Duncan, 1st Viscount Duncan of Camperdown, hero of the Battle of Camperdown)
• “Eâ€￾ class – Exmouth (Admiral Sir Edward Pellew, 1st Viscount Exmouth, was active during the American War of Independence, the French Revolutionary Wars, and the Napoleonic Wars.)
• “Fâ€￾ class – Faulknor (any one of a number of naval officers in the Faulknor family, including Jonathan Faulknor, who was active during the American War of Independence, the French Revolutionary Wars, and the Napoleonic Wars.)
• “Gâ€￾ class – Grenville (probably Sir Richard Grenville, who was active at the time of the Spanish Armada. Several other notable military persons had the same surname.)
• “Hâ€￾ class – Hardy (Vice Admiral Sir Thomas Masterman Hardy, captain of HMS Victory at the Battle of Trafalgar.)
• “Iâ€￾ class – Inglefield (Admiral Sir Edward Augustus Inglefield, a noted explorer of the western America coast.)
Most of the other classes had one of the eight ships “fitted as a leaderâ€￾ but for the most part this was limited to internal modifications. These leaders were visually indistinguishable from the rest of their class in 1/2400-scale.
HMS Codrington displaced 1540 tons standard and was 343’ oa compared to the “Aâ€￾ class ships, which displaced about 1350 tons standard and were 323’ oa. She carried 5 single 4.7â€￾/45 QF Mk IX guns and 2x4 21â€￾ TT. The other “Aâ€￾ class ships carried only four single 4.7â€￾ guns. Shortly before being sunk in 1940, HMS Codrington had the aft set of torpedo tubes replaced by a 3â€￾ anti-aircraft gun
HMS Keith was considered the flotilla leader for the “Bâ€￾ class. This ship had the same dimensions and armament as the other “Bâ€￾ class ships but a slightly greater displacement due to enlarged superstructure. Likewise, HMS Kempenfelt for “Câ€￾ class and HMS Duncan for “Dâ€￾ class.
HMS Exmouth and HMS Faulkner displaced about 1480 tons standard and were 343’ oa compared to the “Eâ€￾ and “Fâ€￾ class ships which displaced about 1380 tons standard and were 329’ oa. The leaders carried five single 4.7â€￾/45 QF Mk IX guns and 2x4 21â€￾ TT. The “Eâ€￾ and “Fâ€￾ class ships carried only four single 4.7â€￾ guns. HMS Exmouth was lost early in WWII. During the war, HMS Faulknor replaced one of the 4.7â€￾ guns with a 3â€￾ anti-aircraft gun.
HMS Grenville displaced about 1455 tons standard and was 330’ oa compared to the “Gâ€￾ class ships which displaced about 1350 tons standard and were 323’ oa. Grenville carried five single 4.7â€￾/45 QF Mk IX guns and 2x4 21â€￾ TT. The “Gâ€￾ class ships carried only four single 4.7â€￾ guns. HMS Grenville was lost early in WWII.
HMS Hardy displaced about 1455 tons standard and was 337’ oa compared to the “Hâ€￾ class ships which displaced about 1350 tons and were 323’ oa. Hardy carried five single 4.7â€￾/45 QF Mk IX guns and 2x4 21â€￾ TT. The “Hâ€￾ class ships carried only four single 4.7â€￾ guns. HMS Hardy was lost early in WWII.
HMS Inglefield displaced about 1544 tons standard and was 337’ oa compared to the “Iâ€￾ class ships which displaced about 1350 tons and were 323’ oa. Inglefield carried five single 4.7â€￾/45 QF Mk IX guns and, originally, 2x5 21â€￾ TT. The quintuple torpedo tube mountings turned out to be too heavy and were converted to quadruple mounts. The “Iâ€￾ class ships carried only four single 4.7â€￾ guns. War-time modifications to Inglefield included replacing one of the 4.7â€￾ guns with a 3â€￾ anti-aircraft gun.
Considerations for modelling:
• HMS Codrington, HMS Exmouth, and HMS Faulknor were similar enough that a single model would suffice for all three, as built. Hypothetically, I would also have identical flotilla leaders for “B,â€￾ “C,â€￾ and “Dâ€￾ classes. Separate models would be needed for late-war Codrington (one bank of TT replaced by 3â€￾ anti-aircraft gun) and for late-war Faulknor (one 4.7â€￾ gun replaced by 3â€￾ anti-aircraft gun).
• HMS Grenville was unique in being shorter than all the other flotilla leaders. For hypothetical purposes, I would accept using a longer HMS Hardy/HMS Inglefield for HMS Grenville.
• HMS Hardy and HMS Inglefield had identical dimensions. The quintuple torpedo mounts on Inglefield were converted to match those on Hardy before the start of the war, so a single model for both (with quadruple torpedo mounts) would be fine.
Overall model wants, with priorities:
1. Model for HMS Codrington, HMS Exmouth, or HMS Faulknor, as built. I would get two packs of three ships to provide flotilla leaders for “Aâ€￾ through “Fâ€￾ classes.
2. Model for HMS Hardy or HMS Inglefield, as built. I would get two packs of three ships to provided flotilla leaders for “Gâ€￾ through “Iâ€￾ classes plus eight similar ships built for Turkey and Brazil but taken over by the British at the start of the war.
3. Model for HMS Faulknor, late-war. I would get one packs of three ships to provide leaders for hypothetical late-war survivors of “Aâ€￾ through “Fâ€￾ classes that remained as destroyers.
4. Model for HMS Inglefield, mid-war. I would get one pack of three ships to provide leaders for hypothetical late-war survivors of “Gâ€￾ through “Iâ€￾ classes that remained as destroyers.
5. Not really interested in a model for HMS Grenville, unless no model for HMS Hardy or HMS Inglefield is available, in which case I would use HMS Grenville for all three.