Israeli armor

tanker · Post by **tanker** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:25 pm

So I'm watching Fox News showing an Israeli mobile artillery unit firing 155mm shells onto Hezbollah targets and I wondered if GHQ had that unit. Unfortunately not. Does anyone know what this unit is called and whether GHQ will be adding it to the mix?

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/13072006/325/p ... piece.html

Tanker

voltigeur · Post by **voltigeur** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:42 pm

They are US M109. They are not Pallidans use GHQ # N38.

If memory serves me correctly a Battery is 6 guns.

tanker · Post by **tanker** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:37 am

Thanks Voltigeur. I was watching that video again and happened to recall the conversation about comparing the gun tubes on GHQ vs. That Other Company. The gun tube on the real M109 is huge and the GHQ model looks pretty much exactly to scale.

Tanker

Mobius · Post by **Mobius** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:42 am

Is anybody planning on gaming an invasion of Southern Lebanon this weekend?
To see what happens before hand.
Maybe a Damascus gambit too.

Op_Paperclip · Post by **Op_Paperclip** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:53 am

Better start loading rockets into my toyota technicals...

voltigeur · Post by **voltigeur** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:02 am

The way things are going it'll happen before we can get the Merkava's painted.

predator06 · Post by **predator06** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:17 am

I think we have all Ben thinking of it.

Iâ€™ve been checking out Modern Syrian and Iranian TO&E lately.

Problem with Modern Israeli Vs Iranian / Syrians, is the technology gap is so huge.

So basically the moment a Merkava Rolls onto the map, the Syrians become little more than pop up targets in there antiquated T72s and T55s. You could make up for the imbalance with allot of Infantry armed with RPGs and SAGGERS and such, But for the most part they are going to be hamburger. Unless you roll in the more antiquated Israeli stuff. Like The Magach.

In the end, I think whatâ€™s happening over there is going to be about as exiting as the BB gun Duck shoot booth at a carnival as far as tank battles are concerned.

Just my 2 cents.

predator06 · Post by **predator06** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:17 am

accidental double post.

Mobius · Post by **Mobius** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:02 am

Rules for IEDs?

tanker · Post by **tanker** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:19 pm

Mobius wrote:
"Rules for IEDs?"

Don't forget rockets and missles, with chem and bio warheads. The Syrians have been building these for awhile now and have the SCUD D4. If it does escalate it's going to be ugly and more than just a ground war.

And while we're at it, we may as well go for the inevitble escalation that will encompass Afghanistan, Iran and Iraq, the US, the UK and the UN.

Tanker

tanker · Post by **tanker** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:57 pm

And here is a nice web page for anyone wanting to check out paint schemes for any of the MBTs that might be involved in this.

http://www.army-technology.com/projects ... ttle_Tanks

In particular check out the ball and chain protection on the back of the Merkava turret. Going to be a real pain to paint.

Tanker

tanker · Post by **tanker** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:05 am

And just to add something for you Micronauts, this is the ship the US is sending to help take the remaining 3,000 US citizens out of Lebanon;

http://www.iwo-jima.navy.mil/photos.htm

The LHD USS Iwo Jima.

Tanker

Zeppelin · Post by **Zeppelin** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:16 pm

Don't be so eager to count out the Syrian armor and anti-armor units. While it is true that Syrian losses would be higher than IDF losses, it is not going to be a one-way street. Just look back at the results of the 1982 campaign. Quoting from Steven Zaloga's "Tank Battles of the Mid-East Wars (2)" published by Concord:

"Nearlly a third of the IDF's tanks, 300 of 1,025 were damaged in combat. Of the 300 tanks damaged, 108 suffered severe damage and 92 tanks had their armor penetrated by either tank gunfire, RPG-7s or missiles. Of these, 52 tanks were destroyed including 37 M-60 Magach tanks, 8 Centurion Shot tanks and 7 Merkava tanks. precise figures for Syrian losses are lacking, but approximately 400-500 tanks were lost including about 200 that were abandoned and recovered by the IDF nearly intact. Of those knocked out in combat, about 70% fell victim to IDF tanks, and the remainder to TOW anti-tank missiles or air attack."

Zaloga also points out that anti-tank helicopters were used extensively by both sides, and that the Syrian Gazelles accounted for 7 IDF tanks and made quite a morale impact on the IDF tankers, conducting about 93 sorties. IDF helicopters accounted for around 29 tanks, 26 APCs and other armored types, 30 trucks and a multitude of bunkers and sites, while making 130 sorties.

Lebanon is not open desert and includes a lot more vegetation, hills and urban environment which provides for more anti-armor encounters. When the IDF moves in the ground phase in a few days, we'll find a lot of infantry vs infantry encounters as the IDF infantry protects its tanks better than they did in '82. A lot of lessons were learned in the last 24 years.

The big question we probably all have is: Will Syria send in the armor to try to extract/protect/cover the destruction of Hezbollah?

BTW, we all know Hezbollah has thousands of bombardment missiles from Iran, but does anyone want to make any bets about AT missiles?

Best regards,
Zeppelin

predator06 · Post by **predator06** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 12:18 am

That was way back in 1982 zepplin,

24 years ago.

Israeli Military technology has advanced. While Syrian Military technology >For the most part< Has not advanced much at all.

And the point of this thread wasnâ€™t a discussion on who would win the war anyways; it is a discussion about its Gaming possibilities. And Most MICRO ARMOUR players arenâ€™t going to want to throw T55 tanks and 1970s era RPG armed infantry technology up against Merkava IV Main battle tanks.

Now, if Syria had been able to afford those T90 tanks and BMP3s from Russia a few years ago,,,

Luca · Post by **Luca** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 4:00 am

Hi, I found this web site. It's all about political ** CENSORED **, but it also include some interesting things on armor and general military things. The interesting news I red is that Syrian is going to up-grade his army with some "brand new" T-80. I didn't yet red all the article, but it seems very interesting.

http://www.acpr.org.il/ins/articles/Fishbein1.htm