Micronaut Only Thread

TAMMY · Post by **TAMMY** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:29 pm

Tom, on that Hungrian site you may find the same type of file on K.u.K. Battleships, Crusers, etc. Look for

http://mateinfo.hu/a-index.htm

Unfathomable · Post by **Unfathomable** » Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:36 am

Thanks for posting pictures, Foxbat. It always enlivens the the thread. And great work, as well.

I've not had much luck with questions, but it occasionally works out, so here goes nothing - one over to the group:

Does anyone have an idea for the best way to stack the tanks and trucks on the MV Gran?

The instructions helpfully point out that the weight should be evenly distributed, though I'm unsure as to the exact placement on deck - across the hatch covers athwartship, or running down the side along the wooden deck area with the vehicles placed nose to tail? Or something else? Or both?

I have put insane effort into the vehicles and don't want to mess this up! The photograph on the site depicts the vessel sans cargo.

If anyone has made this model, feel free to shout out. Thanks for the time.

Unfathomable · Post by **Unfathomable** » Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:37 am

Thanks for posting pictures, Foxbat. It always enlivens the the thread. And great work, as well.

I've not had much luck with questions, but it occasionally works out, so here goes nothing - one over to the group:

Does anyone have an idea for the best way to stack the tanks and trucks on the MV Gran?

The instructions helpfully point out that the weight should be evenly distributed, though I'm unsure as to the exact placement on deck - across the hatch covers athwartship, or running down the side along the wooden deck area with the vehicles placed nose to tail? Or something else? Or both?

I have put insane effort into the vehicles and don't want to mess this up! The photograph on the site depicts the vessel sans cargo.

If anyone has made this model, feel free to shout out. Thanks for the time.

cinctim · Post by **cinctim** » Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:36 am

Hello Unfathomable,
I haven't seen that many pictures of freighters/attack cargo ships with loads, but what I have
seen is that the hatch covers were not used for storing tanks and trucks, they were always on
the deck. Probably because of the weight of the vehicles, and the construciion of the covers,
was just that, covers that would keep out water and crewmen falling into the holds, they were
not designed to handle that sort of weight. This doesn't count for the vehicles that were in the
hold(s) in the first place, but then you won't see them, with the cover on anyways.

av8rmongo · Post by **av8rmongo** » Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:39 am

I agree with cinctim, they should be mounted in the spaces alongside the hatches not on the hatches themselves. I have nothing to back that up other than that's how I chose to do mine. However, if you look at modelwarships.com there is a liberty ship model with tanks, trucks, and DUKW loaded on the hatches. So perhaps you can do whatever you want.

Unfathomable · Post by **Unfathomable** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:54 am

Thank you both for the very helpful replies.

The sided areas make sense, when you think about it, though for some reason it surprises me - perhaps simply as there seems too many vehicles to be accommodated along these strips.

I don't know why, but I've gone to town on this MV, with trucks composed of individually painted and textured windshields, wheels, tailgates, canvas covers and so forth. It's taken six weeks so far.

Again, thank you for the replies.

av8rmongo · Post by **av8rmongo** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 2:00 pm

I've used the extra tanks and trucks to detail the ships I bought from "the other guys". It doesn't make them look as good as GHQ models but it helps them stand out less in a convoy.

Paul

Donald M. Scheef · Post by **Donald M. Scheef** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:58 pm

I've been looking for photos of Liberty Ships that show deck cargo, but without much success. Almost all the photos seem to be from water level (not showing the deck) or of ships with no deck cargo.
However, there are some photos of professional-grade models that seem to be realistic representations. Some of these show trucks, DUKWs, Sherman tanks, etc. arranged around the edges of the cargo hatches (i.e., nothing on the hatch covers themselves). One model does show trucks over the hatches. In the model (a diorama), cargo is being loaded. Two of the hatches have trucks on them. It appears that crewmen are placing (wooden?) beams over another of the hatches, apparently in preparation for putting more trucks on top of this one. Apparently, the normal hatch covers could not support the weight of trucks but heavy-duty planking could be put on top of the hatch covers.
My conclusions are:
- Many Liberty Ships sailed with little or no deck cargo (perhaps because the holds were full of heavy cargo and loading more deck cargo would make them unstable).
- Some Liberty Ships carried heavy vehicles on the deck around the cargo hatches but not on the hatches themselves.
- Some Liberty Ships placed load-bearing decking over the hatches and then loaded vehicles on this.

Bottom line: load as much or as little deck cargo as you want.

Don S.

CG2 · Post by **CG2** » Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:53 am

It's also quite common to see photos with aircraft on the deck hatches.

Unfathomable · Post by **Unfathomable** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:16 am

Thanks again Donald - and everyone else.

I also found it hard on the reference front. The most tightly packed example I found for something akin to Gran had landing craft stacked more or less everywhere - across hatches, the sides, all over the shop. But they were empty and, I imagine, pretty light. Or relatively light.

I like the "put them anywhere" approach anyway!

Cheers.

CG2 · Post by **CG2** » Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:35 pm

The figures I have for the most common landing craft when empty are as follows :

LCA - 9,144 kg
LCVP - 8,200kg
LCM(1) - 21,337kg
LCM(3) - 23,636kg

An M4 Sherman weighs in at just over 30,000kg and a Hawker Hurricane at 2,605kg so I guess that shows why aircraft and lighter landing craft were stowed over the hatches.

TAMMY · Post by **TAMMY** » Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:45 pm

The standard Liberty ships had only one 50 t boom fore and a 30 t (often 15t only aft. All the other booms were of 5 t capacity.

This is important to remember if the cargo has to be handled with the on board means. There were 44 ships modified for tank and boxed aircraft transport which had all the booms of at least 30t capacity.

In any case vehicles are the worst kind of equipment to transport on a general cargo ship. They cannot be stacked nor used to fill the side spaces. Usually they were placed on deck as mixed cargo, thet is crates and boxes in the holds and, if there was still load capacity, the vehicles on deck.

Just to give a reference. If you load only a type of vehcile you will fill a Libety ship with 485 2 1/2 t trucks or 260 tanks. This means, respectively, 2,125 t and 7.800 t against an available deadweight load of 10.800 t. It is quite evident that transporting trucks only would be a waste of space.

TAMMY · Post by **TAMMY** » Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:58 pm

A comment on the effect of the load. You have to compare the specific weight (ton /sqm) not the weght only. This explains why you may stacks LCM on hatch cover but you have to be careful with tanks.

tstockton · Post by **tstockton** » Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:43 am

TAMMY,

I fully understand your point on weight vs. area, and stacking landing craft... but I drew a mental picture of stacks of TANKS sitting on a cargo hatch -- and just had to share that silly thought!

I don't think I've ever seen tanks stacked, even in a "tank graveyard"!

Regards,
Tom Stockton

TAMMY · Post by **TAMMY** » Sat Apr 05, 2014 2:25 am

Tom, I fully agree with you. I
I intended to compare the load of a stack of Landing Craft with that of a SINGLE tank.
As I said in a previous post, it is impossible to stack vehicles, of any type not only tank- The only exception I know were jeeps that could be boxed, if necessary.

Micronaut Only Thread

Deck Cargo