Modern for 1985

[cabin4clw]

Looking at a winter project for me getting into 1985 USA vs Russians. This would be a gradual buy over a few months rather than all at once because of limited funds.
So, this is the question...what minis should I start with?
Thanx,
Joe

[panzergator]

First, limit it a bit. What size battle? Covering force or main battle? Company or battalion level, or larger? Keeping it simple...

US - tanks are M1s (not M1A1 or M1A2), M60A3s NO M60A2s
mech inf has M113A2 or M2,. Basic models, not M2A2or M2A3. M901AT..
arty - M109A2
cavalry - M113A2 and M901 or M3. ACRs have M3s and M1s. Divisional cav is two troops of M3s. I don't know if you are going to do Army aviation.

USSR - tanks - T62, T64, T72
mech - BTR60, BMP1
arty - 122mm SP and 152mm SP

This is a J series TOE battle for US, so 4 line companies in a tank and mech battalion. Doctrine says cross-attach to company level, not down to platoon (I don't know what was actually done). Mech battalions had an AT company with 12 M901s in addition to the 2 M901s in each company. Although the AT company was originally supposed to be only for the transition mech battalion equipped with M113A2s, the AT company was not deleted from the battalions equipped with M2s until around 1st Gulf. Tank companies are 4-tank platoons, 14 tanks per company. Mortar platoons had 6 M107s; the 81mm mortars were deleted from mech companies. Medics had 8 ambulances.

SOVIETS... Motorized Rifle Divisions are 1 tank regiment and three motorized rifle regiments. Tank division is 3 tank regiments and a BMP1 regiment. Tank regiment is 3 battalions of 31 tanks, 1 battalion of 31 BMPs. Motorized rifle regiment is 1 40-tank battalion, 1 31-BMP battalion, and 2 B31-BTR60 battalions. Let me know if you want the arty. There's a LOT!

That's kind of basic and others may want to chime in and disagree or provide more info.

[BattlerBritain]

Soviets had plenty of T-80s available in 85 as well.

Also some 2S6 Tunguska were available instead of ZSU-23x4.

Throw in some 2S7 and BM-27 artillery and simmer on a low heat until ready to serve

[Guroburov]

From what I remember, the Soviets had only limited numbers of T-80s in 1985 and units that were issued them were deep in Russia. Front line units "should" have the older models unless you want to just say the T-80 units were rushed forward. I mean, it's your game. Play on!

[BattlerBritain]

They had T-80As, and -Bs I think, in 8th Guards Army as a permanent part of GSFG in 1985, right opposite US troops.

Later models like T-80Us were around about 1986-7.

They had T-64As and -Bs against the Brits in 85.

There's a thread somewhere, either here on GHQ forum or over on TMP about what was deployed when. I'll see if I can dig it out.

There's this one:
http://www.ghqmodels.com/forum/viewtopi ... hlight=t80

And this one:
https://coldwargamer.blogspot.com/2012/ ... k.html?m=1

And TMP:
http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg ... 992&page=1

[Guroburov]

Cool, I didn't know they'd moved a unit to the border that early.

[Hoth_902]

This is an awesome thread. Love the info. Quick question,. If anyone is familiar with the game MBT, how accurate is the organization charts in the rules manual. I have long since lost the game, but I know someone with a copy. Thought about using that information on Russian and German formations.

[cabin4clw]

Thanks for all the great help, so far.

[redleg]

1985 sounds like a great time period to game because of the mix of older and newer equipment.

My dad has been a model railroader for about 150 years and his layout / collection is set in the mid 50s. so that he can have both steam and diesel locomotives and his scenery and rolling stock can be from several different eras. 1985 sounds like the wargaming equivalent.

[panzergator]

I agree, although I might go just a LITTLE earlier so I could use some A2s...

[panzergator]

I agree, although I might go just a LITTLE earlier so I could use some A2s...

[panzergator]

My evaluation and experience tell me there would be quite a mix in any conflict between '65-85. Old stuff from pre-stockage would have to be thrown into the breach and the Warpac would have done the same - independant tank battalions of T55s and the like. M60s, A1s, A3s, M1s all on the line, Chally1, Chieftain, maybe even Centurions. AMX 30s, AMX13s, German M48 90mm and 105mm, Leo 1 and early Leo II, even in 1985.

[panzergator]

So, a '47s fan, but Russkis instead of Germans?

[panzergator]

That's intetesting. AMX13, AMLs. Some US hand-me-downs - M4, Stuarts,Chaffees, half-tracks. Foreign Legion, paras. France was pretty active - Vietnam, Algeria. Nasty wars

Good luck.