Pop quiz

Cav Dog · Post by **Cav Dog** » Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:34 pm

I had an uncle who flew P47Ds in WWII with the 365th Fighter Group. He had a string of bad luck, one aircraft caught fire while landing in England and on his last mission, he had a mid air collision with his wingman climbing out of a cloud bank over Normandy in July of 1944. His wingman was killed and he bailed out over the channel. In the process, his leg struck the tail of his aircraft and had to amputated aboard the RN LST that scooped him out of the water.

I'm trying to research more about him and his aircraft so I can model one.

redleg · Post by **redleg** » Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:58 pm

Lots of good stuff in the post libraries, and especially the school posts. My CAS3 class took a trip to the Fort Leavenworth library and we saw one of Patton's OPORDs. I think it was from 1942, but my memory isn't what it used to be. The point our instructor was making was that it was 2 pages long and it was a corps-level order.

The next month I reported to 1ID G3 Plans and we cranked out a 326 page division OPORD!

redleg · Post by **redleg** » Wed Apr 08, 2020 9:00 pm

Crazy story Cav Dog! It's cool that you can model his aircraft to honor him. Goes to show that nothing is "routine" in wartime.

redleg · Post by **redleg** » Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:13 am

OK so the XVII, XVIII, and XIX legions were the ones destroyed in the Teutoberg Forrest on September 9, 9AD, but I don't know when they were created. I found one reference that says 41 BC?

panzergator · Post by **panzergator** » Thu Apr 09, 2020 3:54 am

Well, arnchu LUCKY?! I didn't ASK when they were created.

Since you brought it up, info on founding of those legions is vague. They appear to have been raised at the same time from the same recruiting ground, probably in Italy, probably in 49bc, by Julius Caesar. They served under Drusus and Tiberius on their German campaigns. They stayed in the Lower Rhine region afterwards. Apparently, some of the principal officers of those legions departed with Tiberius, because units were often commanded junior officers on the fateful march. As with the 7th US Cavalry, senior officers were on detached duty.

Only the XVIII was reconstituted. It did not do well and was amalgamated with another legion.

Varus had done well in Syria, but was brought out of retirement for the German posting, had grown soft and too agreeable in his later years. He was 60 at this point. Imagine campaigning under those conditions at 60, Guys.

If this kind of thing interests you, look at "Legions of Rome," by Stephen Dando-Collins. It presents a fair bit of general information by legion. Some entries are sketchy, others are fairly complete. It's a good start from which to find out more. This is one of my favorite books and it is on my "re-read" list. Although I was always interested in Rome and it's army, my interest was raised exponentially when I was stationed in Friedberg and discovered Saalburg and the Limes Germanicus. And THEN the archeology of the Teutoburg Forest battle ticked up.

panzergator · Post by **panzergator** » Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:42 am

Just for more info, a legion at the time of Augustus was approximately 6000 men. Varus' strength might, then have amounted to 18,000 swords. It likely had as many auxiliaries provided by various allies. Camp followers likely doubled THAT number. The Teutoburg must have run red with blood. The Octavian army consisted of 28 legions. The loss of three legions was significant. Imagine losing a division with all dependants today, plus, say German division... Well, let's imagine an H series division in 1976. Rome's 28 legions approximated 9 1/3 US divisions. Two of those legions were not replaced and the third was so useless it was broken up.

Germanicus led a force back through Teutoburg several years after, exacting Rome's revenge. And everybody MARCHED every step of the way... Oh, the glory of the dogfoot soldier!

Perhaps GHQ should make a line for the Roman army.

redleg · Post by **redleg** » Thu Apr 09, 2020 8:18 am

New question: What German word translates very roughly into "Mission Tactics" or "Mission Command" and is a philosophy by which subordinate commanders are given great flexibility in order to meet the commander's intent?

panzergator · Post by **panzergator** » Thu Apr 09, 2020 8:46 am

Auftragstaktic.

panzergator · Post by **panzergator** » Thu Apr 09, 2020 8:47 am

Deleted

redleg · Post by **redleg** » Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:27 am

Thay didn't take very long!

Guroburov · Post by **Guroburov** » Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:28 am

Cool story Cav Dog. Reminds me of a friend in college. Her dad flew recon B-25s in WWII. In his retirement he decided he wanted to build a model of his plane and paint it to match. He searched high and low but couldn't find the right model. One day in the 80s he was in a model shop in Dallas and saw the edge of a Tamiya kit for the recon B-25. Looking at the box, he flipped it over to see the alternate decals and the front art was a photo. A photo he took of his plane and crew that Tamiya lifted from US archives.

Question from another forum:
What do you know about the sd.kfz.8 db.10 gepanzerte? All I can find is that the db10 was built from 1939-44 but unknown how many were built as the armored gepanzerte.

Edit: found out after further search. Believed only 20-30 made.

panzergator · Post by **panzergator** » Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:39 am

Redleg, I was trained. I did a few years in Germany. Professional reading is a wonderful thing. If I only had a brain...

panzergator · Post by **panzergator** » Thu Apr 09, 2020 8:07 pm

Speaking of models with a personal connection, it isn't as glamorous as a P47, but I came across a model of the USS Randall by Revelle a number of years back. In 1957, I (at 7 years old), spent 10 days imprisoned in that ship returning from Germany with my family. Nothing to do but play Parcheesi, Fish, and Slapjack, which I have refused to ever play since. During WWII, it had been a troopship with landing craft, but after the war, was used to transport families back and forth between Bremerhaven and New York.

panzergator · Post by **panzergator** » Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:55 am

Pop!

In the 1960s, the Chief Bean Counter insisted both the Navy and the Air Force uses the same airframe for each services tactical fighter. What was that airplane?

chrisswim · Post by **chrisswim** » Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:57 am

F-4 Phantom