M10 packs update

[Vergeltungswaffe]

That article is filled with good news.

[Hoth_902]

Man, Looks like the AMPV is had its numbers reduced!!! Things are going to be interesting in the coming future.

[whenimaginationfails]

Man, Looks like the AMPV is had its numbers reduced!!! Things are going to be interesting in the coming future.

Sure will be. The M113A3s are getting old and in need of a replacement. There have to be hundreds of them in each armored/mechanized division.

[Hoth_902]

Not being an expert on military needs and wants, it almost seems like cuts to show cuts without considering if this will leave gaps in capability. Things in the past always seemed like there was some logic that a non military person could follow.

I read that Humvee and JLVT production is being halted or slowed. Older M1s are not being upgraded even though the new M1 is not coming out yet. Also heard older M109A6s are going to taken out of service. Do we have enough M109A7s yet?

So confused

[panzergator]

The cuts are not the result of considered decision, but a budgetary, political goal. Nothing good will come of decisions so made. Soldiers will pay with their lives. While I agree the M10 is a waste, air dropping was not in the original requirement so that's not a reason for cancellation. I never used a HUMVEE, so I'm not familiar with its real-life utility, but I know it wasn't originally designed for the uses to which it has been put. Still, what will replace a light utility vehicle which has such a variety of uses.

The "shoot first, fix thing later" is a lousy way to do things and calls to question the individual qualification for senior positions.

[chrisswim]

Gentlemen,
If using the Booker models as was planned as direct fire support for Marines with low recoil gun system, how many would be expected to fight? Two or four? One? ‘Bring that tank up here, there is a bunker that he have not been able to take care of.’
I know it’s not a tank. But how many might have been on : LHD, LHA, USS New York?
Any direct anti-tank capability? APFS round? Low recoil gun, so HEAT round only?

I look forward to your insight, perspective. Thank you.

The Bookers

[panzergator]

If adopted by the Marines, I would expect the M10 to be employed in the tradition of the Marine tank battalion and similar to the WWII Army divisional tank battalion. Expect an MEU to have a platoon of 4 available for the landing team, carried ashore via LCAC or landed by the new landing vessels currently in development, 1 or 2 at a time. Don't expect to see them employed as a battalion task force or as a company team, as you might have in Iraq/2003. Armor guys don't like to be employed in anything less than a platoon, but it's conceivable that you might see M10s employed in ones and twos, as they are intended to be used differently. And, had the Army adopted them, you might have seen ones and twos there, as well. The intent of this vehicle is not that of a tank.

I have read that a couple of senior officers have termed it a heavy tank, a phrase uttered by the frankly ignorant. Even in WWII, the 30-ton Sherman was classified a medium tank, and considering the current Abrams is around 70 tons, the 42-ton Booker can hardly be called "heavy.". Yes, it is heavier than what its mission required, but I suspect its Infantry officer project manager just got a little ambitious for it and the weight got away from him. And THEN it was decided that its crew would be ARMOR guys instead of Infantry guys and things just went all to hell, the mission and purpose being completely lost to runaway imagination.

There are still challenges for the Marines to overcome, primarily how to fit the logistical support into their new doctrine and the lift requirements for the vehicle and its spare parts and upkeep requirements. And just what is a " low pressure" 105mm gun that looks like the M68? The weaker recoil mechanism likely can't handle APFSDS, but maybe a lower grade saint round. Unfortunately if it looks like a tank, situations will arise where it will expected to BE A tank and the crew must be prepared for that. And maybe the M8 with a 105 or 120 would have done a decent job, after all. And a 120mm telescoped round would have enabled a better basic load.

It seems to me both the Army and Marines should have looked to the M18 Hellcat to meet their needs. Fast, light, effective enough gun, good tactics. Just what do they want this thing to do? "Bring along those old ONTOS and Scorpions, boys."